please critique both horses the best you can

We took some pics of our horses yesterday. They're both saddled (Fender for the first time in a year!) and the pics are not great for judging conformation. But I thought I'd share them anyhow to see what good and bad you can pick out.

Fender is the out-of-shape solid black paint (complete extensor tendon laceration last April). He's been lungeing for the past month or so and lots of in-hand and groundwork. First time with a saddle on him in these pics and first time with a rider in a year. Heck we didn't even adjust the stirrups.

Kiyah is the sorrel quarter horse. My daughter (riding in the pics) may want to do barrels or cutting & reining...she's not sure. Kiyah is currently used for trail riding and just messin around and having fun! I may do dressage with Fender 'cause he has a beautiful extended trot. But he may just be a trail horse..we'll see how ambitious he turns out to be.

Fender is beautiful! He has a cute head, nice neck that ties in well with his chest. His shoulder may be a bit upright. He looks good. I can't tell a lot about the mare from the pics. It looks like the saddle pad on her needs to be scooted back, it's too far forward on her shoulders. Your daughter seems to be leaning too far forward, she needs to sit a little straighter.

Fender is a cutie with a total puppy dog personality! His muscles are like jello now..he had a 200 pound weight drop when he was injured. I'm going reeaal slow with him and don't care if it takes me two years to get him in shape!

Yeah that saddle pad is definitely too far forward on Kiyah! My daughter would be the first to admit she doesn't know what she's doing when it comes to western barrel racing as she's trained in english. Not sure why she picked a western horse a year and a half ago when I gave her the opportunity to buy a horse? I'll get her a trainer if she finally makes up her mind as to what she really wants to do with Kiyah.

In the future, I'll put up better conformation pics of both horses..saddleless! Thanks for your comments horsecrazy.

The black is lovely, well built and looks calm and self posessed.
The chestnut is a nice looking horse, though I prefer the black. You are lucky to have such nice horses.

The black is a very nice horse. His shoulder and pasterns are, at first glance, alarmingly straight, but their angles match each other, and I don't see them causing him any problems.

I can't see anything about the sorrel's conformation from the photos provided, but I can tell even from the still shots that she needs work on rate and collection at slow speeds before loping the barrel pattern. Get her rounded; get her head down; get her responsive to seat and vocal commands rather than riding off her face (and personal pet peeve: that bulky nylon halter is getting in the way of her bridle and is serving no useful purpose--ditch it). Your daughter's stirrups are too long, causing her to reach with her toes and wrecking her balance. She'll be a lot more secure if she can put her heels down where they belong.

Thanks for your comments Tiny. We do feel lucky to have such nice horses! I feel fortunate that Fender is still with us. I was urged to put him down. Glad I didn't. But what a painful, expensive, and looonng rehab..I'll have to dig up a picture of what he looked like coming offf stall rest..scary ugly. I pitied him.

Bubba, thanks for your comments, too. You've pointed out things that have been noticed by me and others. I think Kiyah's way of going is definitely rider induced. Just in a walk my daughter sits too far forward and carries her hands too high. She hauls on Kiyah's mouth and wonders why Kiyah's head is in the air. What's funny is that she doesn't ride this way on other horses.. just Kiyah. She won't listen to me (mothers know nothing) but she will listen to a trainer. She had one for a little while until our BO required that all trainers be privately insured (too expensive for her to cover all trainers on her policy). Understandable and I had no problem with it but our trainer did, so she's out of the picture. We are in search of another. I wish my daughter would make up her mind as to what she wants to do with Kiyah. Kiyah's too nice of a horse to ditz around with. Though in fairness to my daughter, Kiyah can be a hot tempered spazz and difficult to control at times because she's smart (very smart), extremely agile, and very fast. Kiyah's registered and in the incentive fund...wonderful bloodlines and was specifically bred (in Texas) to be a cutting & reining horse. I don't think she's too much horse for my daughter but she definitely needs guidance. Trail riding....no problems. Kiyah goes on wonderfully for miles.

What's interesting is that all these 14, 15 and 16 year olds at our trail riding barn want nothing to do with ground training. They want to get on their horses and go! They all haul on their horse's mouths doing those barrels and go racing around like crazy people. Injuries waiting to happen in my humble opinion. But what do I know..I'm old.. lol.