Please Critique Cochise (if you can) be mean even! - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 41 Old 11-28-2010, 06:35 PM
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He'd make a nice gelding.

looks like a nice riding horse, needs more muscle and weight though
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post #22 of 41 Old 11-28-2010, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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oh yeah

Originally Posted by darkpaloma View Post
just for the record I have only had him since last Saturday that is one week, he is underweight and his feet need trimmed so what do ya think now!

his neck isn't built funny its his hair i cant make it lay down in that spot LOL
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post #23 of 41 Old 11-28-2010, 07:04 PM
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I am sure he'll make a wonderful gelding but I honestly don't see anything in him that I would want to pass on to a foal.
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post #24 of 41 Old 11-28-2010, 07:39 PM
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The new pictures, as I stated before, make a lot of impact. -BUT-

....he's still not breeding quality.
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post #25 of 41 Old 11-28-2010, 08:03 PM
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faye I didn't say it was a fault. : / Just stated that it looked like he was uphill.

100% Anti-Slaughter and PROUD of it!
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post #26 of 41 Old 11-28-2010, 08:23 PM
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if you re read the OP she said her friend asked wether he was breeding quality.

Live to ride. Ride to live.
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post #27 of 41 Old 11-28-2010, 08:31 PM
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I find it interesting that when the majority of horse owners get a "stud" they immediately think of breeding, making money and being able to say they own a stud. The average horseperson has no business owning a stallion and all that goes with one, strong fencing, being good enough to handle one, insurance for liability, all things that are needed to own a breeding stud. I have been around lots and lots of studs, most were very well behaved, even during breedings, but that is because they were trained from day one to be that way. The look like a breeding quality animal, have proved themselves before breeding, have wonderful bloodlines. Anyone can own a "stud" but to own a good quality stallion that people will really want to breed to is not for the average person.
I show dogs and breed them. I have had multiple champions, yet I only breed very rarely and only after all testing has been done and the dog passed. My male dog is not just bred to any female, the female has to be proven in the performance or breed ring, all tests done, etc. I am responsible for all my puppies produced for the life of the dog, I give genetic health guarantees, etc. When I do breed, it is carefully planned. It just drives me crazy that the average person who owns dogs has a male "whatever" that they will "stud" out to any female. They don't care about their puppies produced, just give the money and leave with your puppy and don't call back.
If you are going to breed ANY animal it should be the best to the best, not just a horse will balls breeding whilly nilly to a mare with a uterous.
In the case of your Paint, he is nice and loudly marked, but in no way is he a breeding quality horse. Geld him and enjoy him.
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post #28 of 41 Old 11-28-2010, 09:02 PM
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From what I understand. The OP wanted a critique because her friend wanted to breed to her stud. And the OP wanted to know if her stud was worthy.
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post #29 of 41 Old 11-28-2010, 09:08 PM
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Body Length = 12.2
Shoulder Slope = 55.95 D
Shoulder Angle = 89.14 D
Scapula Length = 4.84 = 40% BL
Humorous Length = 3.25 = 67% of SL
Forearm Length = 2.75 = 85% of HL
Cannon Length = 2.22 = 81% of FL
Pastern Length = .98 = 44% CL
Back Length = 5.53 = 45% BL
Ribcage Length = 5.66 = 100% of back
Hip Length = 3.92 = 32% of BL
Femur Length = 3.57 less than HL
Pelvic Length = 4.15 more than HL
Neck Length = 6.59 = 54% of BL
I took the time to do this in hopes that you’ll be able to better understand why the general consensus is that Cochise needs to be gelded.
He does have a fairly square body shape to him, which is a good thing, his shoulder slope is 55 degrees which is steep, his shoulder angle is 89.12 degrees which is a closed angle (90 degrees is “acceptable” 100 is better). He does have a long scapula - 40% of his body length, his humorous is too long, being 67% of the scapula. Now, I have said in other places that a long humorous is desireable, because it can give a horse longer strides, but the maximum we really want is about 60%. Overall, his steep shoulder and closed angle are helped by the length of his scapula, but the excess length of his humorous is going to make him a little “camped under” - even though is leg may appear verticle.
His forearm length is 85% of his humorous which is great, but his cannon length is too long at 81% of his forearm length. The longer the cannon is, the weaker it is. His Pastern length is OK.
What really becomes a major fault with this horse is his leg straightness, you can see, quite clearly that even though his foreleg is pretty straight, the plumb line doesn’t touch either the dot in the center of the knee or the one at the fetlock. This is going to put more strain on his legs than we’d like, and it’s certainly a trait I wouldn’t want to risk passing on to offspring. It may never bother him in his lifetime, depending on what you plan to do with him, or it may show up as he ages in the form of arthritis. Remember that horses carry most of their weight on their front legs.
He has a nice back length, and he has a short loin, but he loses points for having a shallow loin girth. In a breeding stallion we want to make sure that any weaknesses they have won’t be likely to be passed on and turn into “critical weaknesses”. A lack of loin girth is going to reduce the strength of his loin, which in turn reduces the strength of his back. Again, something that may never affect him much in his lifetime, but, not something you want to pass on as paired with a longer loin or a less desirable LS placement and you’d end up with a foal with a weak back - since most Paints are used for riding, a strong back is essential to long term soundness.
His hip is a little shy of being adequate - his femur is too short and his pelvis too long. This is all going to take away from his “motor”. While it’s not going to cause him any horrendous issues, it’s less than ideal - a lot of Paints have MUCH nicer hindquarters. If you follow the plumb line down his hind leg, you can see he’s camped out too - or rather, he has too much angulation to his hind limb. It might help HIM because it will help hide any gait challenges caused by the lack of hip length, but should he pass on his hip, but not his angulation you’d have a foal which may be much less than ideal.
His neck is a little on the long side, I don’t mind it’s shape though. He needs some proper muscle put on it, but it ties in alright.
Overall this horse would make a really cute gelding. He does have some “serious” faults, but, if you all you want is a nice pleasure horse, or a horse who you don‘t expect “big“ things from, he’ll be your man. He just isn’t worth reproducing, IMHO, simply because Paints are fairly common, and many are better put together than this one is, so there really is no reason to use this particular individual in a breeding program - just too much risk.
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post #30 of 41 Old 11-28-2010, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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thanks so much unicorn you gotta admit though not bad for 150 bucks lol
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apha , conformation , overo , stallion , stud

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