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Potential dressage horse?

6K views 44 replies 15 participants last post by  teamfire 
#1 ·
Looking for my first horse, wanting to do dressage, hopefully reach one day 3rd or 4th level.

What do you think of him? He's 7, but he was started late.





No conformation pictures, I'm afraid.

Any thoughts?
 
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#2 ·
Looking for my first horse, wanting to do dressage, hopefully reach one day 3rd or 4th level.

What do you think of him? He's 7, but he was started late.



Larceny Flat Work & Jumping - YouTube

No conformation pictures, I'm afraid.

Any thoughts?
I watched a few minutes of that video..

Im not a fan. But what is your riding level?

Hes VERY quick. I get that hes green but it almost seems that that rider isn't riding him from the back forward...shes just letting him run through her hands while she hauls on the bit and cranks his head down and tries to make it look pretty.
 
#4 ·
He has a lot of go and is really rythmic and pretty free throught the back. If you have a good instructor who knows how to work with this kind of "steamroller" horse, then maybe yes. As you can see, he is going through the bit, but ends up behind the vertical, bearing down on the bit. I think correct riding can help this, incorrect riding will make it hard ingrained and you'll be just being dragged around all the time. Do you know how to slow a horse, without pulling back harder? Do you know how to encourage him to reach down and in front of the vertical and lift through? Can you keep his busy mind , well, busy?
 
#5 ·
Certainly do! Plus, I have a really amazing coach is VERY careful on teaching the proper riding aids, particularly of the seat. If there's anything that bothers her, it's busy hands that force a head down for the 'look' but no substance, and working correctly from the back to the front.
 
#8 ·
I do like him, though I agree with what everyone else is saying, too.

I love the expression "steamroller horse" to describe him! Well done tinyliny. Lol!

Even though the rider is unimpressive, I do see potential in this horse. He has 3 very nice gaits to work with, and seems to be an easy learner.
 
#9 ·
Lateral walk... run away!!!!!!!
His walk is a whisker away from being two beat/lateral, this is very difficult to correct and if he already has the tendency to be lateral, he will likely revert to this whenever he is tense even if you do manage to train it out of him for general work.
At the end of the video when the rider lets him out a little, the walk does improve, so that is a good sign that you will be able to train it out of him, but as I said, it's likely that he will also want to revert to lateral when tension creeps in.

The trot is 'ok', but I'm not leaping out of my seat yelling "world beater". It will take a lot of work to get him to sit and lighten his forehand. He is running straight through the rider's hands, and Tiny said, "steamrolling". I feel that he has a natural tendency to want to be on his front legs and low in the poll, even without a not so talented rider on board. His hocks aren't brilliant, yes he could dabble in some collection, but I don't feel that this will be his strong point. Though with lots of gymnastic and correct work, he may build the strength to cope with this a little more.

I think his canter is quite good and he has an uphill tendency if the rider had the skill to show that off, probably his best pace.

I think once he has a decent rider on board he would start to use his back, but in the video he very much looked like a leg mover rather than a back mover.
I wouldn't recommend this horse as a rider's first horse, as there is a lot of work to be done on re-education and I think he may also be quite hot headed when you put some pressure on him.
Have a look, show your coach, but he wouldn't be my pick.
 
#10 · (Edited)
The lateral walk at the beginning was concerning. I saw at the end, when the rider allowed the horse to relax more, his walk became more 4 beat. However, any time that horse gets stressed or anxious you have more of a chance the horse will have a lateral walk. Depends on the money they want for the horse. If he's cheap, then retraining the horse to not give the lateral walk when anxious/nervous might be worth while.

He looks like he'd be capable, physically, of training through 3rd. Nice canter. His trot in the free jumping video has a lot of expression. He's run off his feet in the trot while the rider cranks his nose in... that's a terrible rider. I'd like to yank her off that horse and ask her what the heck she thinks she's doing.

I didn't see a price for the horse listed anywhere, but I think I would pass on this one. Him getting a late start, the lateral walk, having to retrain him to stay connected on the bit... He has such a long way to go in his training just to be at a solid training level, and he's alredy 7. Plus you'll have to introduce him to all of the same things you'd have to do if he were 4 (first show, first everything). If he has a great personality, and bomb proof type persona, then that would make up for his late start and bad beginning training... but if he's the nervous type, I'd pass.

Depends on the price. I wouldn't buy him unless I got a really good deal on him. Otherwise, he's just another warmblood of average ability, except he's been started late and trained to run around like a fool while leaning on the bit. Wouldn't be worth the time and effort at full price.
 
#11 ·
Well, this horse is supposed to have super temperament, very willing. Advertised with a 4/10. But haven't personally met him, of course.

She is firm at 5k. Too much? Has been difficult to even find a 'so-so' sort of horse in my area... everyone seems to be jumpers and what few dressage horses are available tend to be at 10k+. I don't mind working with the horse, of course, that's what I most enjoy, seeing a positive change in the horse.
 
#12 ·
Well, this horse is supposed to have super temperament, very willing. Advertised with a 4/10. But haven't personally met him, of course.

She is firm at 5k. Too much? Has been difficult to even find a 'so-so' sort of horse in my area... everyone seems to be jumpers and what few dressage horses are available tend to be at 10k+. I don't mind working with the horse, of course, that's what I most enjoy, seeing a positive change in the horse.
I had the same problems when trying to find a decent horse this past year. Don't give up hope though, and don't settle. In the long run, you need a horse you're going to be happy with for several years.

This is just my opinion... After having your trainer see him, doing a test ride, etc, and IF you still like him, offer them $4,000. Train him through second then sell him to an Adult amateur for a few grand more than you paid for him.

Just curious, but have you looked at other breeds, or warmblood crosses? There are several in my area that are less than $10k but still very athletic and better trained (and it isn't exactly a dressage mecca here).
 
#14 ·
I cant help but say this, everyone notes the horse rushing (and i have a steam rollar at home lol) but to me it looks like the rider is rushing the horse leg leg leg and rising faster and faster when he's already not working properly and rushing he doesnt look to me like he's rushing more being rushed IMO ??????? any thoughts??? seriously puzzled???
 
#17 · (Edited)
So, I went to see him. Cause, he was only an hour away, and it'd at least be a new riding experience.

Turns out he has the most absolutely wonderful temperament. Very, very kind, totally wants to do what you ask of him. Quiet. You couldn't even tell he was a greenie on the ground, such lovely ground manners.

Oh, don't know if I mentioned, when I say green, I do mean pretty green, as in started half a year ago.

Turns out that why he looks rushed in the video is that the trainer's philosophy is that you get them extremely forward right off the start. She said she's not worried about collecting or anything at this point, just wants forward. Anyways, that's her view of things.

I tried him out and he is NOT at all what he looks like in the video. In fact, sometimes I had trouble keeping him going! Still feels on the forehand, but I'm always unsure when trying out a new horse and when being watched by someone unfamiliar, so didn't really work him like I would've with my coach or on my own. He didn't rush with me (like I said, sometimes not forward enough if anything) and didn't feel heavy in my hands at all.

I'll be getting a video up and see what you guys think. I did notice that he might paddle a bit with one of his front legs.

The other thing is that the owner has some... interesting ideas. The trainer was pretty upset when she told me that the owner doesn't believe in floating their teeth and she says he needs that done IMMEDIATELY. She also said that, although he's barefoot, he also needs a trim badly. Apparently the owner doesn't want to put a single cent more than she needs to... anyways.

I'll upload a video soon!

In the meantime, here's a bad conformation picture. >.>

 
#19 ·
I think you look great on him, his gaits looked better, and you seem to really like his temperament. If your trainer likes him, go for it. From what you're saying and I read Larceny's add, I'd bet they'd take closer to $4k for him. an owner who won't pay $30 for a trim is someone who can't afford board and training and would be willing to sell him for less.

What did your trainer say about him (other than his teeth issue)?

Good riding. I was expecting a lot worse (new horse, new environment, etc). You ride a lot better than the lady in the first video.
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#21 ·
He doesn't even move the same with you on him. You're right, he's still a little on the fore, but sooooo much better. You did a good job riding him. I'd go back and ride him a few more times, make sure you really do click and that he improves with your good riding.
 
#23 ·
There is something wonky behind, vet check him! The way his confirmation and movement is I don't think he will be able to handle the collection and is most suited to lower level hunters and Dressage to only about first level.
But he's cute and if he vets at 4k he would be a nice horse to train up and sell in a few years. He is not however what I would consider a Dressage prospect.
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#34 ·
Hm, what specifically in his conformation or movement don't you like? I'm trying to learn...

Here's a better picture for his hind leg conformation (his trainer is riding in this one, not the best shot)

http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee408/earthshadows/lar_2_1.jpg

And wonky how??? No one's yet mentioned that in this or another forum either! X_x
Possible suspensory ligament issue with his right hind? There's a serious dropping of that fetlock... noticeable to me at the walk & trot.
 
#25 ·
For me, he is so much better in the second video, but he's still awful long and motoring from the front.
You can see he dishes slightly with the front, if he toes out on the hind legs? He doesn't look to come down 'straight' to me, thats the best way I can describe it if I'm honest!

He seems lovely, but I have to say I don't pay as much as they want. Its a lot of money for an allrounder, I wouldn't say he has outstanding dressage potential.

With retraining, a dentist -sigh- and a trim -big sigh- he may turn out lovely for you! It depends on what you want to do, and how far you want to go.

My advice would be check out other horses before you settle, same price, higher price, same age, slightly older.
I tried out a horse 2k out of my initial price bracket and you could tell the difference. Also, ask your trainer whether the horse is worth the price they're wanting for it.

Good luck though on finding the right one :)
 
#26 ·
I'm hoping to maybe reach 3rd or 4th level.

It has been hard, and there's been few horses that I can try out at my maximum budget... Dressage horses are apparently rare here, that fall within my budget. And I've been looking at no specific breed, just any and all that appear!

Seriously, though, anyone in the Vancouver, BC area that wants a jumper... I've passed over some amazing ones!
 
#27 ·
Everything happens for a reason, and you will find the right one, or the right one will find you! Chin up though!
You can always look at something like I did with Duffy, something that needs TLC and work, but in the long run will make a super duper horse. Have you tried widening your search, or using a well known, non dodgy dealer in your area to help you find one?
 
#30 ·
Just did some quick googling, this is what I got:

Intro – (walk & trot tests)
Prelim – (working trot & canter)
Novice – (medium walk, trot & canter, counter canter ,rein back)
Elementary – (leg yield, collected trot & canter, simple changes)
Medium – (shoulder-in, half pass, extended & collected walk, extended trot & canter, travers, half walk pirouettes,
Advanced Medium – (flying change)
Advanced (4 times changes)

Intro - walk/trot
Training Level - walk, trot, canter
First Level - walk, trot, canter, lengthening trot & canter, leg yield, beginning of counter canter
Second Level - collected trot & canter, medium trot & canter, shoulder in, travers, renvers, rein-back, simple changes, turn on haunches, counter canter
Third Level - collected, medium, and extended gaits, half-pass, flying changes, plus the stuff from Second Level
Fourth Level - basically same stuff as Third Level but higher degree of difficulty. Flying changes every 4th stride, canter half-pirouette.
 
#31 ·
Out of curiosity... why are you ruling out Jumpers? Any horse with a good foundation on the flat should be able to handle at least first level possibly second. If you're willing to work with the posted horse, I think you might find what your looking for in the available equine population.
 
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