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Shamrock Just Started Jumping (Critique Him Please.) :)

This is a discussion on Shamrock Just Started Jumping (Critique Him Please.) :) within the Horse Riding Critique forums, part of the Riding Horses category
  • My horse takes a long stride walking and one short what can this be
  • Is it ok for a green horse to jump gymnastics

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    03-15-2012, 02:26 PM
  #11
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveTheSaddlebreds    
Here's a good line example (others on this same channel):
Jumping a Gymnastic Line on a Horse : Jumping 7 Fences on a Horse - YouTube
It consists of a trot-in to a bounce, one stride to another bounce, then a long one stride to an oxer.

I did one with my mare, consisting of 5 jumps all one stride, but with one short long stride, one long stride, and three 'average' one strides.
Gymnastics - YouTube

ALSO (and I think I share this WAY too much - BUT IT'S SO GOOD!)
Show Jumping Exercise- Improve Your Show Jumping In Just 5 Minutes - YouTube

Hope these help :)
Thanks for the videos! I'm sure they will help a good bit.
Are bounces more advanced for horses to do? They seem intimidating. Haha.
Also, how do you tell when your horse is ready for you to raise the jump? Right now with the gymnastics line we do, I start the crossrails out small and then once he starts just popping over them without any effort (kind of like just trotting over instead of jumping) I raise them.
     
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    03-15-2012, 06:57 PM
  #12
Yearling
I'd say when they get near about perfect over that height. Their pace is consistent, they're confident, easy to maneuver, and it just becomes something they can sleep over. Don't go too fast, keep things simple, always end on a good note. :)
wingana likes this.
     
    03-16-2012, 12:30 AM
  #13
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveTheSaddlebreds    
I'd say when they get near about perfect over that height. Their pace is consistent, they're confident, easy to maneuver, and it just becomes something they can sleep over. Don't go too fast, keep things simple, always end on a good note. :)
Awesome! Thanks for all of your help. :)
     
    03-16-2012, 12:42 AM
  #14
Yearling
He definitely has that greenie jump to him (as expected, not a bad thing at all!) but I think he's VERY cute! He looks like he liked jumping the fence, so I would just continue what your doing with him! Keep posting normal-speed vids of his progress though :)! Very cute guy!
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    03-16-2012, 10:30 AM
  #15
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by justjump    
He definitely has that greenie jump to him (as expected, not a bad thing at all!) but I think he's VERY cute! He looks like he liked jumping the fence, so I would just continue what your doing with him! Keep posting normal-speed vids of his progress though :)! Very cute guy!
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Thanks so much! :) Yeah, jumping is a total foreign concept to him. The man who sold him to me said he was used "primarily on the trails" and I put that in quotes because when I brought him home, he acted like he knew absolutely nothing, he wouldn't even walk with someone on his back (and yes, I broke all of the horse buying rules by not riding him beforehand). So he's come a long way since I got him in May. :)

Here's a video of me jumping him normal speed:
Warning.. I'm not the best jumper, but I'm working on it. I hadn't jumped in like a year or two before I started working on jumping him.

     
    03-17-2012, 12:18 AM
  #16
Foal
So in your video, the best thing I can suggest through the gymnastic is to keep your hands steady and down and your leg on him. You kind of have to let him figure it out a little bit. That's the best thing I can suggest at his stage of training. Just stay in two point. He already seems to be eager, just needs a little guidance.
     
    03-17-2012, 10:01 AM
  #17
Banned
Let me clarify a couple of things for you -

Good front end form over fences consists of a couple of different elements -

First, the horse's forearm should be horizontal or above horizontal. Look at the photos of the paint mare and the horse in my avatar photo for examples. Next, it's best if the horse's forelegs are in exactly the same position, not uneven or with one knee below another. Third, the cannon bones should be folded back. Cannons ahead of the vertical is a fault known as "slapping out"; cannons at a right angle are acceptable, the avatar horse's are good and the paint mare's are spectacular. So, to simply - knees way up, even, cannons folded tightly back.

In order to do this; a horse has to have the correct front end confo - well laid back shoulder and a forearm longer than the canon, so he has a lever to snap those forearms on takeoff. The horse also has to arrive at the fence at the proper pace, balance and distance to do so. Good made horses jump in good form no matter what, good training produces that result. Green horses struggle to jump well unless they are helped to the correct pace, balance and distance.

Your green horse is making a typical green horse jump. He's overjumping because he doens't know how to use himself effeciently. He shows some good instincts for jumping, but is not jumping in particularly good form because, well, he's green. He seems to have a nice attitude and is athletic enough that there's no reason why he can't learn. But you will need to help him learn to snap his knees and round up over his fences, and lunging over single fences is not a terribly effective way to do it.

You've been given some great advice by other posters about constructing gymnastics and exercises for him, I just want to add my .02.

I know it's counter intuitive, but a single jump is the *hardest* thing for a horse to jump well. Here's a long quote of mine from another post -

""Three jumps in a line" or gymnastics or grids are MUCH easier for the horse than a single fence. When a gymnastic is set correctly the horse doesn't have to adjust stride or see a distance; the way the exercise is designed sets them up for success and builds confidence.

Conventional training involves lots of simple gymnastics and grids at low heights to teach the horse first, how and where to "wear" their fences safely, and later, to adjust their stride to jump from a difficult of wrong spot. Single fences and courses come much later as their flat work progreses as well.

The normal progresion of training is cavaletti (poles on the ground only), then cavaletti followed by a single fence, cavaletti followed by a simple gymnastic, then more complex gymnastics, then single fences with placement rails to assist the horse, then lines and other related distances, then simple courses all kept fairly low as the horse builds confidence. The horse should also be jumping higher in a gymnastic or something with a fail safe distance than she is a single fence or course. Somewhere between single fences and courses you do a lot of work developing pace, three clear speeds at the canter, and adjusting pace and balance between fences before attempting courses. "

Read more: Nova Jumping her first line of three jumps! Critique
     
    03-17-2012, 12:19 PM
  #18
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by maura    
Let me clarify a couple of things for you -

Good front end form over fences consists of a couple of different elements -

First, the horse's forearm should be horizontal or above horizontal. Look at the photos of the paint mare and the horse in my avatar photo for examples. Next, it's best if the horse's forelegs are in exactly the same position, not uneven or with one knee below another. Third, the cannon bones should be folded back. Cannons ahead of the vertical is a fault known as "slapping out"; cannons at a right angle are acceptable, the avatar horse's are good and the paint mare's are spectacular. So, to simply - knees way up, even, cannons folded tightly back.

In order to do this; a horse has to have the correct front end confo - well laid back shoulder and a forearm longer than the canon, so he has a lever to snap those forearms on takeoff. The horse also has to arrive at the fence at the proper pace, balance and distance to do so. Good made horses jump in good form no matter what, good training produces that result. Green horses struggle to jump well unless they are helped to the correct pace, balance and distance.

Your green horse is making a typical green horse jump. He's overjumping because he doens't know how to use himself effeciently. He shows some good instincts for jumping, but is not jumping in particularly good form because, well, he's green. He seems to have a nice attitude and is athletic enough that there's no reason why he can't learn. But you will need to help him learn to snap his knees and round up over his fences, and lunging over single fences is not a terribly effective way to do it.

You've been given some great advice by other posters about constructing gymnastics and exercises for him, I just want to add my .02.

I know it's counter intuitive, but a single jump is the *hardest* thing for a horse to jump well. Here's a long quote of mine from another post -

""Three jumps in a line" or gymnastics or grids are MUCH easier for the horse than a single fence. When a gymnastic is set correctly the horse doesn't have to adjust stride or see a distance; the way the exercise is designed sets them up for success and builds confidence.

Conventional training involves lots of simple gymnastics and grids at low heights to teach the horse first, how and where to "wear" their fences safely, and later, to adjust their stride to jump from a difficult of wrong spot. Single fences and courses come much later as their flat work progreses as well.

The normal progresion of training is cavaletti (poles on the ground only), then cavaletti followed by a single fence, cavaletti followed by a simple gymnastic, then more complex gymnastics, then single fences with placement rails to assist the horse, then lines and other related distances, then simple courses all kept fairly low as the horse builds confidence. The horse should also be jumping higher in a gymnastic or something with a fail safe distance than she is a single fence or course. Somewhere between single fences and courses you do a lot of work developing pace, three clear speeds at the canter, and adjusting pace and balance between fences before attempting courses. "

Read more: Nova Jumping her first line of three jumps! Critique
Thanks for your input!

We've been doing cavaletti for a while now because it has taken a while to build his confidence over jumping at all. So for months we've just been doing cavaletti, I just haven't really filmed any of it. When I took him to the jump field at our barn and took him over the gymnastics line, he was actually trying and seemed to be enjoying it, so that's where we've started. I have jumped him over a single crossrail/tiny vertical, which he really enjoys as well.

I've been doing all kinds of different set ups with the line that's set up. They've remained the same distance apart as they are in the video, but I've changed heights, which ones were set up as crossrails, and which ones were cavaletti. I haven't set it up as anything other than crossrails, but should I try setting one of the jumps as a small vertical? Maybe 2 cavaletti and then one vertical at the end?

Also, would lunging him over a gymnastics line help at all?

I certainly haven't pushed us past our confidence levels, I don't want to ruin him and I don't want to let my discomfort discourage him if I don't feel 100% confident that we can do it.
     
    03-17-2012, 12:20 PM
  #19
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourcolorfuladdiction    
So in your video, the best thing I can suggest through the gymnastic is to keep your hands steady and down and your leg on him. You kind of have to let him figure it out a little bit. That's the best thing I can suggest at his stage of training. Just stay in two point. He already seems to be eager, just needs a little guidance.
Thanks for the advice!

I've been watching videos of horses doing gymnastics line and in one, you can hear the trainer say, "Leave her alone once you're in there because you can't do anything. Let her figure it out." So I guess that's kind of along the lines of what you're saying?
     
    03-18-2012, 01:27 AM
  #20
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahkgamble    
Thanks for the advice!

I've been watching videos of horses doing gymnastics line and in one, you can hear the trainer say, "Leave her alone once you're in there because you can't do anything. Let her figure it out." So I guess that's kind of along the lines of what you're saying?
Exactly, I noticed your hands coming up a few times in the gymnastic, which could actually start backing him off to jumps in the long run. So really leaving him alone is the best option, just be very supportive with your leg and your upper body (shoulders back, eyes up). The nice thing about not putting the jumps up too quickly is that if he gets into "trouble" he can always stumble over them and "figure it out" because the last thing you want to do is pull a horse out of a line and teach them to run out. So enjoy the little jumps, I always bring my pony (a solid 3'3" jumper who dabbles at 3'6") back down to cross rails and low verticals when I'm trying to teach her something new or challenge her (you know that whole: beep beep nothing's happening.... pony's asleep at the wheel).

We've had days where she's been fighting me like crazy over the big jumps and I'll set up 5 or 6 jumps in a row that are all 2'-2-6" with trot poles in front, she'll rush and trip through the trot poles and try to canter over the last two, throw herself over the first jump, bunny hop over the second and probably knock it over, take a big stride to three, have to shorten her stride and cat her way over four, and finally manage to make a pretty jump over five, and six if it is there. And I just sit there in two point with my leg on and my hands down on her neck and pretend the world is peachy. But because they're little jumps for her, it's no big deal that we went "bowling for dollars" through there because the point of the exercise got through and the next time we come through she backs off, listens, and gets her striding and stops fighting (redheads, always have to prove them wrong lol). But sometimes you just have to let them figure it out the hard way without muscling them, or injuring them (okay so she may have a little paint on her hoof but no worse for wear). Granted if the gymnastic were at her limit, ranging from 3' to 3'6" I couldn't do something like that, I'd have to be active, I'd have to hold her back through the poles then leg on over the first jump so that we don't crash and burn and get hurt.

But when they're little, and can be stepped over at the walk, there's no harm in letting them figure it out without getting in their way (it's very easy to confuse a young horse into messing up).
     

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