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Will he be suitable? confo critique please!

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        04-13-2010, 05:02 PM
      #21
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by churumbeque    
    I underatand over feeding and causing problems but I have never given any babies a growth formula so not sure whay that is given especially if a horse is large it does not need help growing?? Does it? If they grow too fast I know that can cause problems But a balanced diet and vitamins are essential for strong growth. I would not canter a draft on a lunge line until at least 3. They keep growing until 5-6 yrs of age.
    He was put on a growth formula (at the advice of my vet in the first place) due to the fact that his dam, when I got her, was seriously malnourished, and likely malnourished throughout her pregnancy while carrying Finn. The vet also recommended I wean Finn early, due to lactation and an additional pregnancy causing a very slow recovery/rehabilitation on the part of my mare, so Finn was weaned and put on growth formula at 4 months of age. If you click through my barn, you will see skinniness is not normally the trend on my property, more often I am battling pudginess. I canter him minimally, as I mentioned, and he's rarely lunged overall more than 15 minutes on any given day.


    Equiniphile and smrobs, I figured him for a dark bay, but my friend the other day commented she thought he'd be a liver chestnut. I didn't see it, but glad to have the opinions, thanks! His dam is a fading black tobiano, and his sire is a chestnut.

    Romargrey - haha I was trying to get the clearest side views I could, but if I got enough behind his shoulder he figured he was supposed to move off, it was tricky just to get the shots I did, with no one to hold him for me *lol* I don't have great conformation pics of his sire, I''ll post what I've got at the bottom of this post. I'll post a picture of his dam too, but she just delivered a foal April 5th so is looking a little rough herself - she hasn't been rode in months either because she has on/off soundness issues, so lacks a lot of conditioning. I'll try to get some video of him on the lungeline this evening! Thanks for your opinion, taking notes on all these things. Thanks so much!

    Alwaysbehind ~ Thanks, he has a great personality, he's a loverboy. He is 3/4 draft so bound to end up pretty drafty as he continues to mature, so this is what I am wanting to hear, what is going to be working against him. So thank you! He is already much heavier in the front then the hind end, but at a trot he does seem to move nicely off the rear. I'll try to get that video and upload it tonight.

    NE, that's my experience with draft babies as well. If you look at pictures I posted of him just a month or so ago, he had a tubby tummy and was pretty roly poly, which is why the vet had me take him off anything but hay. I had figured him for a dark bay when he first started shedding out kind of coppery around his eyes at the tail end of winter. The white on him is actually I think more sabino from the shire side (his sire has the same white belly patch) than a pattern from the paint side. I think his dam is sabino as well, she practically looks like she's roaning out with all the stray white hair she has spreading across her this spring. Finn doesn't have stray whites in his coat at this point, but plenty in his tail. So things to watch for at this point are the steepness of his pasterns, shoulder and croup angles. Taking more notes! Thanks so much.

    Here's pictures of sire and dam:

    Sire is an 18 hand chestnut ASHA Shire "Wandamere Patches" aka Paddy (best picture I have of him, he lives about 1200 miles away):



    Dam is a very sweet but mediocre mare, 1/2 Shire 1/2 Paint, shouldn't have been bred. Sorry she isn't sqare as could be in this picture, but it's the only decent side on picture I have of her without a huge preggo belly (and yes she's a little ribby too, just had a baby and all. She's getting fed up a lot right now and has been since I got her, when she was severely emaciated).

         
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        04-13-2010, 06:51 PM
      #22
    Green Broke
    I was going to say Liver chestnut. He is soooo cute. I find it hard to critique at this young age. I got Hunter last July just before he turned 2 and he has changed so much since then - though he was neglected and not growing properly but looked like a real gangly kid. Now he is starting to look like a horse (a small horse - he could only dream to be as tall as your cutie pie lol). I can't wait to see this one grow up up up lol
         
        04-13-2010, 07:08 PM
      #23
    Green Broke
    Okay, never tried to post a video here so I'll see how this works.

    This was a real juggling act to hold the lungeline and lungewhip in one hand and try to keep my V and "balance" on him right, while working the camera with the other *lol* If only I had someone around to help with video and picture taking! *lol* I have five bedrooms in my house and only use two - anyone want to move in? Up front requirement - must take horse pictures for me!

    Now the first couple videos I was trying to take didn't turn out because of the distance from the camera to Finn, it was just blurry. Probably something to do with the settings on my camera but I don't know how to adjust them. I ended up shortening the line to get him close enough to film - but he's not used to moving in smaller circles (I always lunge him on the full 30m) so he's not extending as much or comfortably as he normally does. Add to this my neighbor kids decided to come sit on the other side of the fence and watch, talk, and occasionally shout encouragement to Finn - so yeah, here he is, but with plenty of distractions, so give the kid a break, normally he works for me very well! Can't figure how to embed the videos, so will just provide links.

    Finn trot 1 video by vintagecollies - Photobucket

    Finn trot 2 video by vintagecollies - Photobucket

    ETA - okay I must have done something wrong, because both those videos seem to be only like, 10 seconds long, when they were both over a minute (the second vid was two combined). I don't know how to do this stuff. *lol*
         
        04-13-2010, 09:49 PM
      #24
    Foal
    Well I was able to see the trot to the left video and let me commend you on your ability to video and lunge at the same time. That certainly takes some doing. I can't d/l the first video at all , it gave me an error msg that it was an invalid format.
    In regards to the video of trot to the left, I can say he moves with a nice shoulder motion, its nicely open and not as stabby as I was expecting with the lateral view on his pics. His back though long has in no way grown to its actual size and right now his neck appears to be short. But , it is so difficult to evaluate the young stock as they are growing because they change incredibly over time. He does have nice movement to his hocks and appears to carry himself well balanced to the left. In regards to his sire, he does have a long back and a steeper croup angle . He has a better knee to hock level and less down hill appearing and so Finn may truly change over time. As for the mare, she appears to have a better croup angle but is standing compensated at the hip too. She appears a bit camped under but she does have the foal on her feet and so it may truly not be there structurally. I like her neck to back ratio and her shoulder angle is not as straight with a nicer angle. (a better ride) All in all, I like Finn and I think as he grows you will see the ever changing patterns of gangly to ugly phases as he matures into the majestic horse. Keep him well nourished, don't overfeed any foal and make sure you keep some weight to height measurements on him so you can show the vet . Overfeeding and pushing weight on foals can lead to internal joint derrangements called OCD or osteochondral defects and can be disabling. Thanks for getting the video and I think you are going to have a nice big boy to ride and enjoy .
         
        04-13-2010, 10:55 PM
      #25
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by romargrey    
    well I was able to see the trot to the left video and let me commend you on your ability to video and lunge at the same time. That certainly takes some doing. I can't d/l the first video at all , it gave me an error msg that it was an invalid format.
    In regards to the video of trot to the left, I can say he moves with a nice shoulder motion, its nicely open and not as stabby as I was expecting with the lateral view on his pics. His back though long has in no way grown to its actual size and right now his neck appears to be short. But , it is so difficult to evaluate the young stock as they are growing because they change incredibly over time. He does have nice movement to his hocks and appears to carry himself well balanced to the left. In regards to his sire, he does have a long back and a steeper croup angle . He has a better knee to hock level and less down hill appearing and so Finn may truly change over time. As for the mare, she appears to have a better croup angle but is standing compensated at the hip too. She appears a bit camped under but she does have the foal on her feet and so it may truly not be there structurally. I like her neck to back ratio and her shoulder angle is not as straight with a nicer angle. (a better ride) All in all, I like Finn and I think as he grows you will see the ever changing patterns of gangly to ugly phases as he matures into the majestic horse. Keep him well nourished, don't overfeed any foal and make sure you keep some weight to height measurements on him so you can show the vet . Overfeeding and pushing weight on foals can lead to internal joint derrangements called OCD or osteochondral defects and can be disabling. Thanks for getting the video and I think you are going to have a nice big boy to ride and enjoy .
    I think I recorded the videos in the wrong format on my camera, they seem to be all messed up. I'll mess with the camera settings tomorrow and see if I can get a better video, particularly if I let him out on the line so he can move more freely as well (he was only on about 14 ft of line there, so was not really extending out for me, and I didn't want to push him to). I've not used the video function on my camera much so I need to learn how to work it!

    The dam, although I have had limited chance to ride her thus far, is probably the nicest moving horse I have ever rode, when she's sound. If Finn gets even a little of that from her I'll be thrilled to pieces. So that comes from the shoulder angle? I'm still trying to learn everything I can about conformation, so your post is incredibly helpful, thank you! The mare does often stand camped under up front, though I believe it to be less structural and more soundness related. She's gotten a lot better in the last few months, she has an old injury to her fetlock in the rear (where she's standing with her hip cocked) and has a lot of compensation-based soreness/likely arthritis or perhaps osteoarthritis in the front. (haven't had her joints x-rayed yet) We've been working on the soundness for a year and she has improved dramatically. If she's never sound enough to ride regularly, well then she isn't, and she'll still always have a home with me, free from having to make any more babies, but if I can ever get her sound enough ti ride of course that's icing.

    It was my vets advise to take Finn off any extra feed a few months back, for the same reasons you have mentioned, the risk of damage to the growing joints being great. He's a little ribby right now, so I am trying to bring his weight up a bit, but he's hardly starving and has certainly never missed a meal since coming into my possession as a 2 month old. I think I'll just need to keep tweaking his diet on a monthly basis to keep up with his changing needs.

    Thanks again for sharing your knowledge, and I'll try to get proper videos tomorrow!
         
        04-14-2010, 10:56 AM
      #26
    Weanling
    He's cuuuute! I have no constructive criticism for him at this point.

    Just wanted to say, when I video myself doing any kind of work I use a barrel and set my camera on it and ride/lunge in the view. You could probably use anything relatively sturdy, and it can be kind of hard to judge distance and the area you want to be in but it works pretty well for me. I do most of my work by myself so I feel your pain!
         
        04-14-2010, 11:41 AM
      #27
    Trained
    Any horse can reasonably be expected to be able to get to first level.
    As far as for your guy? I think he falls into that category. He is jogging in the first video, and in the second one although he is actually trotting, he is barely tracking up and even then there is no flow though the body - purely leg movement. He moves like a draft horse and draft horse movement is generally not suitable for dressage.
    It is physically very difficult for draft horses to do dressage because they cannot actually lift themselves off the ground and create a large enough moment of suspension. They are bred to have no moment of suspension in their gait in order to be able to pull where as dressage horses are bred to have the largest moment of suspension in the gait as possible.
    I'm sure he will grow up to be lovely and will be a great introductory dressage mount but don't expect a grand prix horse.
         
        04-14-2010, 02:40 PM
      #28
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by churumbeque    
    The draft babies I have had experience with were never ribby.
    How many draft babies have you had experience with? Every horse is different. My Clyde/Appy yearling is ribby right now coming out of a starved situation and loaded with parasites.

    Every baby is different.
         
        04-14-2010, 02:53 PM
      #29
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by draftrider    
    How many draft babies have you had experience with? Every horse is different. My Clyde/Appy yearling is ribby right now coming out of a starved situation and loaded with parasites.

    Every baby is different.
    Well the ones I have had experience were well taken care from birth of and not starved or wormy. 1 is a friesian cross and the other a draft qtr cross. At no time did they every look underweight or ribby and they were not over fed. Just lots of good hay and reccomended daily rations of safe choice and regular worming. If a horse is getting fed properly and wormed it should look healthy and fit.
         
        04-14-2010, 06:05 PM
      #30
    Yearling
    Ok so you have had experience with 2 draft crosses.

    Indy, he looks fine for this stage in his growth. All I really deal with are drafts, and he looks like just about every juvenile draft cross.

    A lot can change in his conformation over the next 4 years. Drafts grow until they are around 6 years old and will still be laying muscle until they are 7 or 8 years old.
         

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