Is anyone else tired of people calling rodeo abuse? - Page 4
 
 

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Is anyone else tired of people calling rodeo abuse?

This is a discussion on Is anyone else tired of people calling rodeo abuse? within the Horse Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category
  • Does rodeo hurt the cows
  • Calf riding rodeo for kids

 
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    06-20-2011, 05:43 AM
  #31
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba13    
However, any way you look at it, the roping and bulldogging events are cruel. They do NOT simulate actual work on the range in the good ol' cowboy heritage days, when the goal was not speed but efficient, stress-free, easy work on the cattle. Jerking a young calf to the ground from a dead run is appalling, and even at some of the bigger pro rodeos, you will see very rough handling of the horned stock (out of view of the spectators, of course). Bulldogging isn't a whole lot better, and it's got to be extremely stressful for the steer. The same thing with team roping. The way those cattle are "trained" to run isn't exactly humane, either....

At some of the real, good ranch rodeos, they practice a style of roping that is far more realistic for a practical working environment, and this shows a far more useful (if less flashy/impressive) skill as well as being far kinder to the cattle.
I will agree with you on the bulldogging, I don't like that either just because I don't see the point of it. Why jump off a perfectly good horse to wrestle with a steer?

However, I'm not sure where you're getting your idea behind the roping events having no connection to actual ranch work. Roping (especially team roping and even tie-down roping and steer tripping) is one of the few events that are commonly done on ranches every day, past and present.

Even in ranch roping, speed is necessary. Not every cow is just going to stand there calmly and wait for you to drape the rope around it's horns/neck or patiently wait for you to set up a good heel loop and then obediently walk forward into it. Even old broke cattle will run when you start to swing your rope and half the cattle on ranches these days have been "farmerized" to the point where they will commonly run when they see a horse, let alone waiting for you to take your rope down. The last thing a ranch hand wants to do is chase a sick or injured cow for a half mile before they rope it just so it won't be running quite so hard when it hits the end of the rope.

Sometimes, the work on ranches is done by a single cowboy and he has to get...inventive with ways to get everything from a newborn calf to a 2000 pound bull roped and tied down for doctoring.

Depending on who you ask and where they're at, methods can range from wrapping the rope around a tree to choking them down to tripping them to wrapping their back feet in the same rope that's around their neck (a trick my brother, a lifetime ranch hand, taught me), then trying to hustle and get them tied down so that you can get your rope off before they choke to death. All the time, hoping that your horse (who you left out there ground tied at the end of the rope) will keep the rope tight so the momma cow or bull can't get up and demolish you before you get them secured or go back up the rope after your horse and injure him.


Ranch work isn't all butterflies and rainbows either. Sometimes things don't go exactly right and the cow or a horse pays the ultimate price, there are just no spectators or camera crews there to document it all.
     
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    06-20-2011, 10:30 AM
  #32
Weanling
Great points bubba and smrobs :) (love the picture too smrobs)

I just wanted to point out, that in a sport...ANY sport, the object is to be the best of the best. With team roping and what not, the best of the best is the fastest. This not only ties in with the horses' speed, but also with the humans' speed. If you think about it, this speed enables the animal less time to stress and is actually a good thing (more humane). And, as mentioned, the sport does emmulate the actual nature of the real work, since you must be fast so as to eliminate stress on the animal that is tied, and not get hurt by other livestock in the field (or the one that's tied and kickin'!)
     
    06-20-2011, 12:48 PM
  #33
Banned
I just googled some terms and picked the first website that came up:

Quote:
When roping gets mentioned most folks think of rodeo-style calf or team roping, if the topic even comes up at all. But that is a more modern version and the old way of handling cattle on the open range for doctoring and branding involving the use of "la reata" (lariat, catchrope, gutline, whaleline, maguey) for catching and holding the animal while a groundman did the deed is a far cry from that high speed deal. Ranch roping was done slowly and purposefully so as not to stress the cowbrute, being as it was probably sick or a young one that was about to be stressed enough by the branding and castrating that cattle undergo still today. On occasion it might involve high-speed pursuit as in wild cattle catching but generally it was considered a sign of poor herdsmanship to chouse the cattle when roping. Standing or walking shots were preferred and sliding your dallies, and even picking a forefoot up in the loop, to keep the cattle from choking down, was requisite to be considered a real hand by your peers. If you handled the cattle poorly you did not stay on the payroll long either. Ranch roping is the art of "la reata" with its roots deep in the vaquero/long rope/dally style rope use. It is now enjoying a revival with renewed interest not only from cowboys and livestock raisers but from recreational horsefolks too. The sidearm, houlihan, scoop loop, the Johnny Blocker, la flor del viento, all speak to a level of skill at cattle catching that is now more than rare where it used to be commonplace. But in addition, they speak to a level of refinement in a horse and a level of horsemanship in a person that was rapidly disappearing. Now, that kind of horsemanship expertise appears to be on its way back and people are finding a lot of value in it for them and their horses.


Now, I'm not a roper, nor have I been on working ranch, but I've heard the above repeated enough times (and in mainstream publications like Western Horseman) that I'm apt to believe it. It just makes sense to me.

You can't tell me that this:



Demonstrates a useful ranch/ cattle doctoring skill. Nor can you tell me that it's humane ("Cattle are tough! It doesn't hurt them!").

Another point that I failed to mention last night is the "training" of calf-roping horses. Now I'm sure that there are good guys out there who practice real (kind) horsemanship, and do things the right way, but I've seen and heard far too many horrible things to let the average calf-roper near my horse. Dog shock collars over the nose to make them back up, beating them over the face and head repeatedly with a stiff rope for the same purpose, jerk lines, really nasty bits....again, certainly not something an actual working cowboy would do.
     
    06-20-2011, 01:21 PM
  #34
Foal
I don't think Rodeos are that great but they aren't evil. Where PBR is actually VERY good to their cows. They all have really good breeding and are well take care of. I think it depends on the rodeo and stuff...
     
    06-20-2011, 01:30 PM
  #35
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAsamone    
I second feeling for the cattle. I also agree that there is abuse in every discipline, and that, if you really want to get technical- half the stuff we do to our horses- I.e, jumping on their backs and expecting them to hold us for hours, sticking metal peices in their mouth and expecting them to go where ever we want without acting up in anyway or else they are punished, is cruel.

That aside, I believe rodeo, to me, is one of the most natural sports out there that deals with horses besides trail riding, simply due to the fact that

1- horses in the wild will go around something before jumping it
2- dressage poses have to be learned, you don't see horses dancing around in a pasture
3- all a horse has to do in rodeo is either run around a barrel, or run and/or cut cattle or bronc a rider, which, is a bit cruel in my opinion, but if we are sticking to the "natural" argument, it is natural for a horse to bronc a predator on its back in the wild and running is a natural gait.

There are pros and cons. It all depends on the horse and rider as inividuals. If your horse puts up a fuss or you hurt your horse, obviously it should be stopped. But if your horse seems to enjoy it and just does as told...why not?

Agree.
     
    06-20-2011, 01:45 PM
  #36
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba13    
I just googled some terms and picked the first website that came up:

[/FONT]

Now, I'm not a roper, nor have I been on working ranch, but I've heard the above repeated enough times (and in mainstream publications like Western Horseman) that I'm apt to believe it. It just makes sense to me.

You can't tell me that this:



Demonstrates a useful ranch/ cattle doctoring skill. Nor can you tell me that it's humane ("Cattle are tough! It doesn't hurt them!").

Another point that I failed to mention last night is the "training" of calf-roping horses. Now I'm sure that there are good guys out there who practice real (kind) horsemanship, and do things the right way, but I've seen and heard far too many horrible things to let the average calf-roper near my horse. Dog shock collars over the nose to make them back up, beating them over the face and head repeatedly with a stiff rope for the same purpose, jerk lines, really nasty bits....again, certainly not something an actual working cowboy would do.
But it is ok to yank him like that because we gave him a good meal today
     
    06-20-2011, 01:49 PM
  #37
Green Broke
I haven't been to a rodeo since I saw a bucking horse collapse with a broken back. They threw it a coral panel and drug it out of the ring announcing later that the horse was fine.

I haven't been to the chuck wagon races since I saw 2 different horses break a leg at 1 event and be put down either.
     
    06-20-2011, 02:59 PM
  #38
Weanling
I haven't been to a jumping event since I saw a horse come down off the jump and break it's leg and roll over it's rider.

Or since my mare was over jumped when she was younger and developed arthritus in both back hocks. She is now 17 and cannot be stalled or else her legs swell. I also have to be careful how I ride her.

Or since my other mare developed a chronic back problem, again due to over jumping. She cannot be ridden bareback.

And thank you Handrews

I do, however, want to point out that I do somewhat agree with bubba. If you can do it the slow way FIRST (roping I mean) then by all means, go for it, and I am sure that ranchers feel the same way. But most times, as was pointed out previously by smrobs I believe, cattle now a days will run before anything. I know...i have a ton of them where I live. And the big daddy's are nasty- unless they are 4H or FFA cattle, they are pains in the you know whats, and it's in everyone's best interest to just get it done quick and be done with it.
     
    06-20-2011, 03:28 PM
  #39
Showing
Bubba, I'm not saying it's nice, but it does really work that way outside of the rodeo arena. And, yep, things like calf roping (tie-down roping) are done every day on ranches. How, exactly, would you go about getting a 300 lb calf tied down for doctoring if you were out by yourself, 10-30 miles from the nearest house, with no corrals to be had? He has to already be down at the end of your rope before you get off your horse so what options do you have?

As for the "abuse" of the calf roping horses, I've never seen things like that but if you have, then that's the fault of the rider, not the sport. Not all ranch cowboys are nice and gentle souls with their horses either.

I'm not saying that it's all harsh and cruel, but it is real life and real life is hard on people, horses, and cattle. Not everything can always be all nice and touchy-feely when there is a job to be done and often times when doctoring cattle, it's a lesser of 2 evils type thing. You have the option of roping them and getting them down by any means necessary, making them uncomfortable for a few minutes, or you can just leave them be and watch as they slowly suffer and die from a hoof with foot rot that has become infected, an abscess, the scours, a retained placenta, or any number of other illnesses or injuries.

Bad things happen, people and animals get hurt, and there are bad people involved with every aspect of any discipline involving horses/cattle. To blame the sport itself for that is asinine. That would be about like me saying that horse shows or western pleasure are evil and cruel just because Cleve Wells is an abusive asshat.
     
    06-20-2011, 03:46 PM
  #40
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs    
Bubba, I'm not saying it's nice, but it does really work that way outside of the rodeo arena. And, yep, things like calf roping (tie-down roping) are done every day on ranches. How, exactly, would you go about getting a 300 lb calf tied down for doctoring if you were out by yourself, 10-30 miles from the nearest house, with no corrals to be had? He has to already be down at the end of your rope before you get off your horse so what options do you have?

As for the "abuse" of the calf roping horses, I've never seen things like that but if you have, then that's the fault of the rider, not the sport. Not all ranch cowboys are nice and gentle souls with their horses either.

I'm not saying that it's all harsh and cruel, but it is real life and real life is hard on people, horses, and cattle. Not everything can always be all nice and touchy-feely when there is a job to be done and often times when doctoring cattle, it's a lesser of 2 evils type thing. You have the option of roping them and getting them down by any means necessary, making them uncomfortable for a few minutes, or you can just leave them be and watch as they slowly suffer and die from a hoof with foot rot that has become infected, an abscess, the scours, a retained placenta, or any number of other illnesses or injuries.

Bad things happen, people and animals get hurt, and there are bad people involved with every aspect of any discipline involving horses/cattle. To blame the sport itself for that is asinine. That would be about like me saying that horse shows or western pleasure are evil and cruel just because Cleve Wells is an abusive asshat.
Very well said.


And Fiinx--> The PBR does not have cows, they have bulls or cattle. Cows (aka female bovines) are not used for rodeo events such as steer wrestling and bull riding. Bulls or steers(younger bulls) are used. Heifers might be used for tie-down roping, but that's not as likely.

The guys who provide the bulls to the PBR would have cows, as they would be stock contracters, and would most likely have cows to be bred to their bulls.

And just as an added, just like stallions have stud fee's, so do bucking bulls. A vile of Little Yellow Jacket semen is worth $800 US.
     

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