Beginner Rider confused about side passing and canter depart
 
 

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Beginner Rider confused about side passing and canter depart

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  • how to ride rough canter
  • Sidepass for beginner

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    01-28-2012, 07:26 AM
  #1
Foal
Beginner Rider confused about side passing and canter depart

I'm a beginner ride who can w/t/c fine. I know my diagonals when I'm rising to the trot and I'm focusing on foot falls lately. I've also been working on turning on the forehand and haunches. The lesson horse some times takes advantage of me and I have a hard time with the canter depart. When I give him the canter cue, he isn't cantering until we are at the other end of the arena. My riding instructor wants me to be cantering within a couple of strides of asking. I know it's mostly my fault, but my instructor has also told me that he was blowing me off. She got on him, cantered him a few laps and then let me get back on. He was an angel and listened perfectly.

I think that I'm mixing my side passing cue up with the canter depart cue though. When I'm told to go into a canter, she tells me to open my inside leg and tap with my outside leg behind the girth. The horse usually side passes and increases his speed to a faster trot. So now I'm trying to think of what I'm doing wrong. Can someone please help me?
     
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    01-28-2012, 08:35 AM
  #2
Green Broke
First off, I'm not going to say your trainer is wrong because each can use different cues. However, if I was to use the cue you described, I would expect the horse to sidepass.

Since she was able to get the horse to do it, that's because she's riding different than you or not using the same cue. The difference in her riding would be caused by confidence and the sincerity of what she asks the horse to do. You, on the other hand, are learning and consequently are showing uncertainty to the horse. The horse then doesn't respond because it's uncertain if you really want it.

I'm not into english or dressage or arena work but here's the cue that I've known to ask for a canter with a certain lead. First, put your outside leg on farther back to nudge their rear over. This is a precue and gets the horse into position. Then you ask for the canter with your other leg.

Now if you asked how I get a horse to canter, it would be different. That's because I just trail ride and let the horse choose which lead they go into. You don't want to be cantering around any corners or bends because you never know what's going to be there. We save our cantering for roads and open areas where we go straight so it doesn't matter which lead they are in.
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    01-28-2012, 09:43 AM
  #3
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by usandpets    
First off, I'm not going to say your trainer is wrong because each can use different cues. However, if I was to use the cue you described, I would expect the horse to sidepass.

Since she was able to get the horse to do it, that's because she's riding different than you or not using the same cue. The difference in her riding would be caused by confidence and the sincerity of what she asks the horse to do. You, on the other hand, are learning and consequently are showing uncertainty to the horse. The horse then doesn't respond because it's uncertain if you really want it.

I'm not into english or dressage or arena work but here's the cue that I've known to ask for a canter with a certain lead. First, put your outside leg on farther back to nudge their rear over. This is a precue and gets the horse into position. Then you ask for the canter with your other leg.

Now if you asked how I get a horse to canter, it would be different. That's because I just trail ride and let the horse choose which lead they go into. You don't want to be cantering around any corners or bends because you never know what's going to be there. We save our cantering for roads and open areas where we go straight so it doesn't matter which lead they are in.
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I might've been confused of what my instructor was asking of me too. I just get frustrated because she can do it easily and I'm struggling with it so much. I ride Western. How would you ask for the canter with your inside leg? Just put pressure on it?
     
    01-28-2012, 10:08 AM
  #4
Foal
My instructor also made a comment about releasing my cues, which I have a habit of not doing. Could that be why I have a hard time with the canter depart? Maybe the horse is about to go into a canter, but I don't release my inside leg so he doesn't? And maybe that is why my instructor yells out to me to open it?
     
    01-28-2012, 10:20 AM
  #5
Foal
I don't know whether western horses are trained differently to english for canter or whether you're rising in trot (posting) beforehand.

I think your problem lies in the fact you aren't asking for any bend - this is why the horse canters at the end of the straight, where they have to bend to go round the corner.

I would ask for canter just as the outside hind leg is about to leave the ground to swing forward as this is the first stride of canter. Asking in a corner is helpful, but if on the straight then I would ask for a little inward bend on the inside rein holding the outside rein still, then sitting into the trot (ie stop rising) on the next offside hind leg I would ask for canter by swinging my outside leg well back behind the girth and squeezing with BOTH legs briefly.

It ends up as one fluid motion, sit & squeeze and say can-ter - the voice cue is helpful - sit on the "can" and squeeze on the "ter"
     
    01-28-2012, 10:54 AM
  #6
Trained
I'll tell you what I was taught, but I don't follow it so take it with a few pounds of salt...

Imagine the horse's feet form a rectangle. At a sitting trot, use the outside leg to shove his hip over, so the rectangle is now moving across the ground with his inner front leg a little ahead of the outer one. If he sidepasses, move the outer leg further back until his HIP moves. From that position, squeeze both legs to accelerate to a canter, with the inside front leg ahead of the outside front leg.

When prepping to learn to canter, Trooper & I practiced this a lot. But when I eventually asked him to canter, he always took a left lead. That is a flexibility & training issue for him, and we've worked on it for the sake of his physical ability.

However, I'm mostly in the category of not caring what lead the horse chooses. Outside the arena, my turns at a canter would either be very gradual, or unpredictable. Either way, setting a particular lead wouldn't help me much.

On a lesson horse, I'd make sure with my instructor that I'm asking him properly. In my limited experience with lesson horses, some seem inclined to do the wrong thing deliberately so that the instructor will stop them to 'correct the student' while they get to relax.

If I was your instructor - and you probably ought to thank God that I am not! - I'd say, "Goody! He wants to teach you the counter-canter! It is more work for him, and you'll be rougher on his back, but if that is what he wants..." Then I'd let you learn to ride a rough canter, and let the horse learn that he doesn't get a break by doing things wrong.
     
    01-28-2012, 11:24 AM
  #7
Banned
The biggest fault most beginner riders make when asking for the canter is


1...They put whatever aids they are told to do without any authority. In other words you ask pretty please will you canter instead of making the aids as a CANTER...NOW ! Type of asking.

2 They (rider) will lean forward and put the balance forward on the horse so the the horse runs into the canter instead of jumping into it.This is often combined with a drop of contact so the horse runs through the bridle.

3 The above (leaning) combined with long straight lines makes it easy for the horse to run into the canter. Starting the canter (asking) coming into the corner allows the rider a bit more control and the horse less chance to run, so where you ask can either help or hinder your chance of success.

4 I have never heard of canter aids such as your instructor described.

Applying aids from walk to trot to canter.
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    01-28-2012, 11:30 AM
  #8
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisnscully    
I don't know whether western horses are trained differently to english for canter or whether you're rising in trot (posting) beforehand.

I think your problem lies in the fact you aren't asking for any bend - this is why the horse canters at the end of the straight, where they have to bend to go round the corner.

I would ask for canter just as the outside hind leg is about to leave the ground to swing forward as this is the first stride of canter. Asking in a corner is helpful, but if on the straight then I would ask for a little inward bend on the inside rein holding the outside rein still, then sitting into the trot (ie stop rising) on the next offside hind leg I would ask for canter by swinging my outside leg well back behind the girth and squeezing with BOTH legs briefly.

It ends up as one fluid motion, sit & squeeze and say can-ter - the voice cue is helpful - sit on the "can" and squeeze on the "ter"
Thanks so much, but my instructor told me that she would teach me about bending later on, so I don't know much about it. I usually have to ask him on the straight.
     
    01-28-2012, 11:32 AM
  #9
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms    
I'll tell you what I was taught, but I don't follow it so take it with a few pounds of salt...

Imagine the horse's feet form a rectangle. At a sitting trot, use the outside leg to shove his hip over, so the rectangle is now moving across the ground with his inner front leg a little ahead of the outer one. If he sidepasses, move the outer leg further back until his HIP moves. From that position, squeeze both legs to accelerate to a canter, with the inside front leg ahead of the outside front leg.

When prepping to learn to canter, Trooper & I practiced this a lot. But when I eventually asked him to canter, he always took a left lead. That is a flexibility & training issue for him, and we've worked on it for the sake of his physical ability.

However, I'm mostly in the category of not caring what lead the horse chooses. Outside the arena, my turns at a canter would either be very gradual, or unpredictable. Either way, setting a particular lead wouldn't help me much.

On a lesson horse, I'd make sure with my instructor that I'm asking him properly. In my limited experience with lesson horses, some seem inclined to do the wrong thing deliberately so that the instructor will stop them to 'correct the student' while they get to relax.

If I was your instructor - and you probably ought to thank God that I am not! - I'd say, "Goody! He wants to teach you the counter-canter! It is more work for him, and you'll be rougher on his back, but if that is what he wants..." Then I'd let you learn to ride a rough canter, and let the horse learn that he doesn't get a break by doing things wrong.

Thanks! My instructor doesn't care what lead I'm on for the most part. She said as long as my canter depart is smooth, that he can suffer through it if he decides to canter on the wrong lead. Lol I can definitely tell when he is on the wrong lead, I'm pratically panting when we stop!
     
    01-28-2012, 11:35 AM
  #10
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder    
The biggest fault most beginner riders make when asking for the canter is


1...They put whatever aids they are told to do without any authority. In other words you ask pretty please will you canter instead of making the aids as a CANTER...NOW ! Type of asking.

2 They (rider) will lean forward and put the balance forward on the horse so the the horse runs into the canter instead of jumping into it.This is often combined with a drop of contact so the horse runs through the bridle.

3 The above (leaning) combined with long straight lines makes it easy for the horse to run into the canter. Starting the canter (asking) coming into the corner allows the rider a bit more control and the horse less chance to run, so where you ask can either help or hinder your chance of success.

4 I have never heard of canter aids such as your instructor described.

Applying aids from walk to trot to canter.

Thanks, I've actually checked out the thread you linked, but it confuses me. I've been taught to put my outside leg behind the girth. When my instructor wants me to do something else, she will tell me. So when I ask for a canter depart, I should be leaning back?
     

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