Can a 15.1 hh, 1100 lb quarter horse carry a 300 lb man for a short 1 hr trail ride? - Page 7
   

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Can a 15.1 hh, 1100 lb quarter horse carry a 300 lb man for a short 1 hr trail ride?

This is a discussion on Can a 15.1 hh, 1100 lb quarter horse carry a 300 lb man for a short 1 hr trail ride? within the Horse Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category
  • Are quarter horses good carriers
  • Best size horse for 225 lb man

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    03-15-2013, 11:31 AM
  #61
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Horse    
What is strange about that one, you say even the Haflinger, well she is the one horse who was not happy with carrying a bigger person.The other 3 performed a lot better.
Haflingers are well known for their weight carrying ability, hence my comment.
     
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    03-15-2013, 12:12 PM
  #62
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahara    
Rounding up is the weight carrying posture of the horse. If the rider cannot ask the horse to round up, the spinal column will sag over time causing a myriad of domino effect injuries, shortening the longevity and hindering the serviceable soundness of the horse.

This isn't collection, it isn't dressage. It is a basic riding principle. However, very few people concern themselves with this principle, unfortunately.

Horses are made up of tendons, ligaments, muscles, and bones. It isn't rocket science. These tissues can only take so much strain before they start to break down.

If you have a heavy rider that can support his/her own weight AND help the horse round up, that is infinitely more ideal than a heavy rider with dead weight that is simply a passenger.

So, go out there and learn how to round-up your horse that is in suitable condition and have fun.
^^^ My point, PRECISELY, Sahara. I certainly appreciate you better articulating it for me, for any who may have misunderstood!
     
    03-15-2013, 12:16 PM
  #63
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clava    
Haflingers are well known for their weight carrying ability, hence my comment.
Yes I get that, but my comment is that she obviously didn't get the memo

Again could would and should, but at the end of the day the horse will give feed back if you listen to it.
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    03-15-2013, 12:20 PM
  #64
Foal
I don't weigh that much but I am overweight. I would not ride horses as fine as being discussed here.

Also, Clava is not fattist. Infact, here we are riding together. I wouldn't ride any of her horses at the moment though.

     
    03-15-2013, 12:26 PM
  #65
Trained
A lot depends on degree. A hollowed out back is bad for a horse. However, if the rounding you are looking for requires 1-2 years of intensive training, then you are probably looking for a degree of rounding that isn't required for the efficient carrying of a rider.

I'm entirely willing to be proven wrong, but I've seen no studies that indicate a requirement for intensive training for a year or more to carry a heavy rider.

That doesn't make it wrong to train a horse like that. But, as an example, the video talked about the importance of having a horse on the bit (he says that is the first thing you have to do). He argues that modern horses normally break down after 4-5 years because horses don't lift their backs.

Sorry, but I know of a lot of horses in their 20s, being ridden regularly, who aren't ridden on the bit, and who have not had intensive training in lifting the back. It is a matter of degree. A hollowed out back is bad, and usually indicates a bad rider creating a defensive reaction by the horse. That doesn't mean the opposite end of the scale is a requirement. There is a happy middle...IMHO. But if anyone has actual scientific studies showing otherwise, I'd love to see them!
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    03-15-2013, 12:29 PM
  #66
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Horse    
Yes I get that, but my comment is that she obviously didn't get the memo

Again could would and should, but at the end of the day the horse will give feed back if you listen to it.

My view is that her back and joints did get the memo, but she struggled on anyway. Horses try very hard to never give feed back.
     
    03-15-2013, 01:00 PM
  #67
Cat
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clava    
My view is that her back and joints did get the memo, but she struggled on anyway. Horses try very hard to never give feed back.

I think you missed what RM was saying. The Haflinger in question did not get the memo that "Haflingers are supposed to be good weight carriers." That horse in question DID give feedback that the weight was not being handled well.
     
    03-15-2013, 01:08 PM
  #68
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat    
I think you missed what RM was saying. The Haflinger in question did not get the memo that "Haflingers are supposed to be good weight carriers." That horse in question DID give feedback that the weight was not being handled well.
I'm glad to hear that the haflinger did give feed back at that weight! Sorry for the confusion. But horses do try and hide it if they can. The haflinger has good bone (usually) , the other 3 do not look in anyway suitable to me for 300lbs on them.
     
    03-15-2013, 01:10 PM
  #69
Banned
Okay, after a long time lurking in this part of the forum, I'm going to add my .02.

First, to the OP:

I think your concern is well founded. But the best, if not the only way to evaluate the situation is to put BF on the horse for a few minutes and observe the horse. Mounting and the first few steps away from the mounting block are crucial. I have seen horses *clearly* indicate at the mounting block that they are struggling to handle weight. Let BF walk around for 15 minutes and watch the horse. Next day examine the horse for tenderness or soreness. If the horse tolerates the 15 minute walk and shows no signs of irration or struggling, I think the walking trail ride on flat ground would be fine.

Now, some details about what informs my opinion -

I am a large rider - 5'7" and between 225 - 245 pounds. With tack, that's 240 - 260.

I have two horses - one, a 15.1 QH with good weight carrying confo. Broad back, short coupled, good shoulder, good hind end. He's about 1000 - 1050 #, so I'm right at 25%.

The other horse is a 14.2 classic foundation QH - he's built like a brick with legs. I refer to him as SEBUQH, Small Emergency Back Up QH. VERY broad back, very sturdy little guy, probably aobut 900 pounds, which puts me at 28%. A little concerning.

BUT - when I was younger and thinner, I was a very experienced, competent professional rider and under the fat, my muscles and bones remember the previous skills. I am very well balanced, I can ride in two point for long distances, and I still have an educated following seat. Not that I could ride a big moving horse in medium or extended trot for long, but my seat stays soft and following in the downward transitions. Would all this be even better if I were thinner? Sure. Am I a less abusive rider than a thinner, unbalanced rider in a badly fitting saddle? Of course!

Here's how I ride my horses - I get on from a very tall mounting block and keep my weight out of the saddle until the horse moves off. I have a good saddle that fits both them and me. I mostly trail ride; if I want to do flat work, I ride in a large open pasture, avoiding small circles, sharp turns and abrupt transition. I warm up in two point and usually only canter and gallop in two point. They're lightly worked; nothing strenuous, no competions. The only things I jump any longer are logs in the path.

My horses are perfectly calm and gentlemanly at the mounting block. (Tension and nervousness at mounting are SIGNS, pay attention!) The are relaxed, forward moving horses who seem to enjoy their work. The bigger horse does this cute thing when we come to an open section of trail where he squeals and roots at the reins, asking if we can please move on now. They are 13 and 12 and have never have an unsound day in the 4 and 5 years of my owning them.

Most significant is that is you look at photos from when they first arrived and now, not only have their toplines not fallen, they have *improved.* I watch their toplines and backs like a hawk, looking for soreness, white hairs, atrophy and heat and haven't found anything yet.

So I'm pretty confident I am not damaging my horses. However, I don't take the 14.2 foundation guy away from home much, and I wouldn't have him as my primary ride. Why? Not because I think I'm hurting him, because I am fairly confident I'm not, but because I do not want to put up with the judgement and comments of others.

Would I put a beginner rider or a bad rider of my size on either them? No, absolutely not, and certainly not on a regular basis. I did teach a friend about my size ONE beginner lesson on SEBUQH, but she mostly trotted in two point and had a few short attempts at learning to post. If she was serious about learning to ride, she'd have to have a more suitable school horse.

Oh, and the furniture, beds and toilets in my house are all in excellent condition.
     
    03-15-2013, 01:13 PM
  #70
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat    
I think you missed what RM was saying. The Haflinger in question did not get the memo that "Haflingers are supposed to be good weight carriers." That horse in question DID give feedback that the weight was not being handled well.
Quite right Cat, and the rider listened to that feedback, sorry if I didn't make it clear, that was the point that I tried, and failed, to make.

I don't think anyone accused Clava of being fattist, she has been very clear that she wouldn't let large people ride her horses, and that is fine. Clava is always straightforward and to the point here, but I never see her as fattist.
     

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