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post #11 of 40 Old 06-19-2010, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhSoAppy View Post
This was a video taken of my 8 year old WP gelding on his second day of learning lead changes (don't mind his first two attempts, he was fresh into his lesson). He wouldn't be able to switch so smoothly if he was not using his hocks properly.

YouTube - Tigger first lead changes


While your horse has more cadence than most WP horses I would point out that creating a crooked horse to get lead changes is not in my repertoire of good training practices.

I found very little in this video that I would call smooth.

Horses moving with this level of impulsion rarely win WP at the national level. They have as you said shortened the stride but are they collected...not in the least.

Wwith 4 beat canters and jogs barely above a shuffle the lack of impulsion negates the term "collected"
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post #12 of 40 Old 06-19-2010, 11:36 PM
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lol...You guys have just confused me!

Can someone please define collection, and engagement. And what exactly does tracking up do for collection. I dont understand the way your explaining it. Well I think I thought I had an idea of it before!
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post #13 of 40 Old 06-19-2010, 11:38 PM
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Maura,
I'll give you this. True collection is said not to start until 2nd Level Dressage (to the level you are going). So yes, you are right...no horse unless it is performing Upper Level Dressage movements are 'collected'.

However, I think it would be fair to say the greater number of amateur riders do not reach that level of riding, and thus don't reach that level of collection.

That is not to say, the horses are not going correctly, and are using themselves properly. That is my one and only point.

Spyder, Thanks for the chuckle.

Taylor~ 12 year old ApHC, Tigger~ 8 year old AQHA, Charlie~ 7 year old DWB/TB, Jazzy~ 2 year old ApHC

Last edited by OhSoAppy; 06-19-2010 at 11:42 PM.
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post #14 of 40 Old 06-19-2010, 11:40 PM
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post #15 of 40 Old 06-19-2010, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro View Post
lol...You guys have just confused me!

Can someone please define collection, and engagement. And what exactly does tracking up do for collection. I dont understand the way your explaining it. Well I think I thought I had an idea of it before!
In its simplest definition collection is the even loading of weight on all four legs that allows for no resistance to the riders demands and in fact the horse has given its body controls entirely up to the rider.
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post #16 of 40 Old 06-19-2010, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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but i dont see to may western horses with there heads all up like that.

look at the difference.

look at the videos, are all the horses collected?

are both was gained the same way, just the confo of the horse makes it look different?



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post #17 of 40 Old 06-20-2010, 12:00 AM
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AQHA, I personally don't like that video of Stacy Westfall as an example for reining. The horse is brideless, and has nothing to search because of it. The mare's head is up simply because she can't finish the connection.

Rugged Lark is a better example of what I think you are asking:


Taylor~ 12 year old ApHC, Tigger~ 8 year old AQHA, Charlie~ 7 year old DWB/TB, Jazzy~ 2 year old ApHC
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post #18 of 40 Old 06-20-2010, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by OhSoAppy View Post
The horse is brideless, and has nothing to search because of it. The mare's head is up simply because she can't finish the connection.
That statement alone tells me you don't have full understanding and subscribe to the fallacies of "headset".
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post #19 of 40 Old 06-20-2010, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
That statement alone tells me you don't have full understanding and subscribe to the fallacies of "headset".

This tells me you don't know how to read.

Read previous posts by me here, and you will see I mention about headset and to not fall 'claim' to that. As I posted to AQHA...don't worry about where the head is. If the horse is moving correctly from behind, they will eventually come down and relax into the bridle.

My comment about bridleless, is a horse will naturally have its head slightly over the verticle if they don't feel the connection of the rider. You can't compare that video of Stacy Westfall and the natural position of that horses head(who I do feel is using herself very nicely) to a horse in a double bridle. Of course they are going to 'look' different.

Taylor~ 12 year old ApHC, Tigger~ 8 year old AQHA, Charlie~ 7 year old DWB/TB, Jazzy~ 2 year old ApHC
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post #20 of 40 Old 06-20-2010, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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So both horses heads are out, but there both collected in the vids?

EDIT: wrote^^^b4 i saw the post above. still have to read it, but i though id say that.
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