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This is a discussion on double birdle :( within the Horse Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category

     
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        11-15-2010, 07:38 AM
      #11
    Weanling
    I think we are actually debating the same thing. Im just not real good at explaining things. That's why I refuse offers to give lessons.
    Yes, how you explained it, is better way to explain it. The energy goes forward towards the bit. A slight wiggle, not a bump, in the curb will entice the horse to go 'on the bit'. On the bit, gives the correct headsets. If the horse is over bent, it is avoiding contact and NOT on the bit. If its under bent the horse is also not on the bit. 'On the bit' is a lot more than this, but for this discussion, I simplified it. There is a sweet spot in there and it is diffrent on every horse. I didnt ever say pressure. I don't really belive in pressure, its more like a wiggle in the rein. Pressure or 'contact' causes a hard mouthed horse. I have to say, I have yet to ride a dressage horse that had a light mouth. All that contact
         
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        11-15-2010, 07:42 AM
      #12
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by XxemmafuriaxX    
    ok thanks for the info I was just kinda shocked and im only used to snaffles never really needed much else...
    Thats great. If your horse listens to a snaffle, that's all you need. People tend to cause things to be more complicated than the need to be. In my opinion, every horse should be in some type of snaffle. I've had horses that wouldnt go on one. But with time, one can be 'softened'enough to use one.
         
        11-15-2010, 07:47 AM
      #13
    Trained
    Haha mate I think you've got the wrong idea of what contact is ;) If you don't ever touch their mouth you're letting the energy you create behind just escape through the 'front door'. A dressage horse should be accepting of a contact on the rein, though a contact is NOT a pulling back or tight action of the rein by any means, it is basically just so the rider 'feels' the horse's mouth without slack in the rein. I'm not sure how else to describe that it is not a pulling back and hanging off of the rein.
    Not sure what kind of dressage horses you've ridden, but evidently not overly well ridden/trained ones as I like any horse I ride to be ultra responsive and supple in my hand. On one horse I am working at the moment, I can merely twitch a finger and shift my weight and he'll turn on a dime, it doesn't take much at all. Unfortunately people have ruined the real essence of dressage by moving into the heavy handed, hanging off the curb and creating a hard mouth by pulling back and essentially riding front to back rather than back to front. It is these unfortunate riders that make people like yourself see dressage as something of a forceful sport, when it is so far from that.
         
        11-15-2010, 08:02 AM
      #14
    Foal
    The way I've been taught to have my reins is that they are tight enough to not let the have much swing (if you get me) but not enough that your pulling.... it is a hard thing to explain think you need to be ther and be able to move someones hands a reins to tell them what you mean lol
         
        11-15-2010, 08:06 AM
      #15
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by XxemmafuriaxX    
    the way I've been taught to have my reins is that they are tight enough to not let the have much swing (if you get me) but not enough that your pulling.... it is a hard thing to explain think you need to be ther and be able to move someones hands a reins to tell them what you mean lol
    yes, dear you do have it right. It seems you have a good teacher. Just follow their advise and you will be ok. Im glad you started this thread. No what to learn, unless you ask.
         
        11-15-2010, 08:08 AM
      #16
    Foal
    Yes my teacher is very good and very patient hahah that a needed skill for me haha if he asks for something and I get nervous he will tell me to stop breathe and try again my old teacher would get frustrated making me more nervous and usualy resulting in me getting off the horse in tears hahah tankyou for your views has helped alot I will be back next time I need some help haha
    Thankyouuu
         
        11-15-2010, 08:09 AM
      #17
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kayty    
    Haha mate I think you've got the wrong idea of what contact is ;) If you don't ever touch their mouth you're letting the energy you create behind just escape through the 'front door'. A dressage horse should be accepting of a contact on the rein, though a contact is NOT a pulling back or tight action of the rein by any means, it is basically just so the rider 'feels' the horse's mouth without slack in the rein. I'm not sure how else to describe that it is not a pulling back and hanging off of the rein.
    Not sure what kind of dressage horses you've ridden, but evidently not overly well ridden/trained ones as I like any horse I ride to be ultra responsive and supple in my hand. On one horse I am working at the moment, I can merely twitch a finger and shift my weight and he'll turn on a dime, it doesn't take much at all. Unfortunately people have ruined the real essence of dressage by moving into the heavy handed, hanging off the curb and creating a hard mouth by pulling back and essentially riding front to back rather than back to front. It is these unfortunate riders that make people like yourself see dressage as something of a forceful sport, when it is so far from that.
    Yeah, the dressage horses I've ridden...USDF champs. They don't pull, just heavy. But OK. Ill take a light mouth. If you knew my ss horse, then you would know, NOTHING escapes her. She is light and goes perfect in a snaffle. Rear end? Up under her, not all drawn out. No need to use constant contact to toughen the mouth.
    I didnt train the dressage horses, but have been asked to work them. No thanks, they are nice, but too much leg and too much contact. I've been trained to use any and all aids lightly and I pefer to keep myself that way.
         
        11-15-2010, 08:20 AM
      #18
    Trained
    Hmmm interesting that you've found they need too much leg and hand! I use barely any, of course as with anything, the greener horses will need a stronger aid than a more experienced horse, until you can fine tune the aids down to barely perceptible shifts in weight. The mare I'm competing at the moment is ridden purely off seat, I don't need to touch her with my leg for upwards transitions, usually the only time I'll apply leg is to get a little more activity or elevation in her paces, and even then it is a light bump with my calf to get the desired result. As for the mouth, put someone heavy handed that will grab at her mouth on her back, and she will cart them around like a giraffe! Put a rider than knows how to engage their core to use an effective seat on her back, and she goes like a lamb, will turn just by moving your shoulders slightly, stop by weighting your seat slightly etc.
    It saddens me that you've only had the chance to ride horses that may have been trained in this 'modern' way of jamming the head in to make flashy front ends by with no hind end, that's what results in a dead sided, dead mouthed horse.
         
        11-15-2010, 08:33 AM
      #19
    Weanling
    Ive always admired the dressage horses and riders. I was very surprised and saddened to feel her be that way. She feels very heavy on the forehand. She uses my half halts, but my pushing with my seat gets me no where. And wiggling the rein, nothing at all good or bad. She isnt avoiding it but its like she doesnt know its there.
    The 2 diciplines are so diffrent, but maybe the lightness I pride myself on isnt what these one are used too. Maybe trained weird, like a spur broke horse, maybe. IDK, but I don't think Im going to be working them. Id rather teach them nothing, than to be the idiot that ruins them.
         

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