end of my patience with this nag. - Page 5 - The Horse Forum
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post #41 of 63 Old 08-17-2011, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by sarahver View Post
I can see you are a little defensive but let me give you some insight as to why some of us are defensive: Many of us have been riding and training for years, I myself have been doing it for 15 years and that is nothing compared to many of my fellow members. If there is one thing that really irks me, and I suspect anyone else that has trained/re-trained horses for others over a period of time, it is hearing a person blame their horse for ANYTHING. Many of the posts I believe were trying to illustrate this point to you and in type it perhaps it came across a little harsh. Take it as you will but rest assured that no-one is trying to offend you, they are just coming from the other side of the fence.

While I absolutely agree with this, it sounds at this point Serafina that you aren't quite ready to deal with the behaviors this horse is presenting you. I think it would be wise of your instructor to get you on a horse slightly less challenging and work on the skill set needed to deal with one as challenging as your current lesson mount.

Has your instructor gotten on this horse during a lesson or another for that matter and demonstrated hands on how to work through his quirks? I always ride one of my training greenies while giving lessons as it presents a greater opportunity to teach working through problems should they arise.

I've been dealing with a similar situation with my hubby. I've been logging some serious re-habbing hours on "his" mare and have gotten her coming along fabulously. I can pretty well do anything I want with her using just my seat and legs, pivot, sidepass, stop on a dime. She's very tuned in. The problem, hubby rides her and she works like a drunken sailor. He has extremely muscular calves and his legs are very on without him needing to try to ride legs on. He has yet to find the balance in his legs to keep her between them and with the slightest varying pressure she is kinda all over the place for him. He got fed up and was ready to throw in the towel and started blaming the mare (though he has seen her work flawlessly for me first hand) and had taken to calling her "Lucifer". So for the last few weeks he has spent time riding my older mare who is very much more tolerant of his unintentional misguidance. He has found more balance and improved greatly on keeping one between his legs. He rode his mare last night and got her to ride straight lines and made a perfect square. He said "Wow, never thought that would happen. Now I see that it was me, I kinda like her."

Don't give up, look at both yourself and the horse and figure out where the miscommunication is happening. It sounds like a crop could be the variable & if that is what it takes to get him working, approach your instructor about learning to ride with a crop on a more seasoned horse and then go back to the challenge.

Regardless of fault on the part of rider or horse, lessons should be enjoyable and at this point it doesn't sound like they are in the least. Have a sit down with your instructor, discuss how you are feeling and what you both need to do to get you back to having fun with your lessons. Good luck!

Life is like a camera. Focus on what's important, Capture the good times, Develop from the negatives and if things don't work out, Take another shot.
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post #42 of 63 Old 08-17-2011, 09:55 AM
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A lot of rude people get on these threads. Please don't let them discourage you. The saying about "no bad horses" is a crock. The horse may have been made bad by a rider, but it was not you. He has probably been spoiled for years. You are paying for lessons. You deserve a trained horse.

Carpe Diem!
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post #43 of 63 Old 08-17-2011, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
A lot of rude people get on these threads. Please don't let them discourage you. The saying about "no bad horses" is a crock. The horse may have been made bad by a rider, but it was not you. He has probably been spoiled for years. You are paying for lessons. You deserve a trained horse.
Fair enough, you may have a valid point in some instances. Before you cast aspersions would you kindly highlight which posts were rude and illustrate exactly why they were rude vs. stating a valid opinion without sugar coating.

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post #44 of 63 Old 08-17-2011, 10:06 AM
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You have received a ton of great information on how to get this horse working that it appears as though you are taking. I just thought I would add my thoughts. I come from an experience very similar to yours-horse was very difficult and I didn't know who to blame.

Originally Posted by serafina View Post
Again, what part of "this horse has bad manners on the ground for everyone" and "farrier hates working on it" says that I am the only one with problems riding this horse?
Ground manners do not always translate to under saddle. They help, but do not mean that a well mannered horse on the ground is going to be the same undersaddle. The horse I'm talking about above has always been a perfect lady on the ground, and a little firecracker undersaddle. Not the same thing.

I don't doubt your ability to crack down and get tough with this horse, as I think that's what you're trying to convey.

I have been dealing with this horse's bad manners for FOUR MONTHS. I have already BEEN through the "maybe this is my fault" thing, more times than I can count. I have been through it with my instructor, who has said, and I quote "Usually it's something the rider is doing, but this is 90% the horse."
Would you believe it, but my instructor told me the same thing. Almost a year I pretty much went to war every time I rode the horse, and EVERY lesson she told me: "You ARE a good rider! It's not your fault!" Well, it was after a few months of self-reflective riding that I realized she could not have been more wrong. Yes, it IS my fault. It always HAS BEEN my fault, and I am willing to bet it always WILL BE my fault if something's going wrong. It was only after I came to that realization that I've been able to progress, and because I am so self-critical, she has improved by leaps and bounds and is still heading uphill.

This horse sounds like a real jerk and lesson horses are great at learning how to take advantage of their riders. My horse was never a lesson horse, so I could not blame anyone else for the bad behaviour. In this case, I'll bet that yes, this horse was spoiled by dozens of poor riders and he is a bit of an arse. But has been said, again and again: "MOST horse problems are actually rider problems." This horse CAN be ridden-you just need to figure out how, and I'm sorry your instructor hasn't been giving you the help you really need.

32 rides...to the guys who have been riding for 30 and 40 YEARS, 32 rides is "a couple of rides". 8 lessons a month is not enough to prove much of anything, as you seem to be aware of.

Since you evidently didn't bother to read anything in the OP other than the word "whip" and immediately went off the deep end with your assumptions (many of which are not substantiated) and judgmental attitude, and have offered no actual advice, your $0.02 is not worth much to me. If you weren't clear on the situation, which it is obvious that you were not, you should have asked a few questions to get a better idea of what was going on before jumping all over me.
Why do you need to be rude and nasty to anyone who doesn't immediately sympathize with you? The only one I see going off the deep end and flying into a fit is YOU. I understand you're frustrated that some people aren't telling you what you want to hear, but that's no reason to get defensive.

I have read every word of this post. I KNOW this horse behaves for you on the ground, and everyone else hates him. I KNOW the other lesson horses behave for you, and this guy is a jerk no matter what you try. And, as iride said, it doesn't change my opinion. The sooner you learn to look at yourself critically, the sooner you'll be able to make progress with this horse.

I don't really understand what you wanted out of this thread. You've gotten tons of advice on how to make this horse behave, you've gotten sympathy, and you've gotten people who are telling you that you're the problem. Did you just want to vent?

Nobody is going to be able to convince you over an internet forum to change your opinions. In reality, it's up to you what you want to do. If you don't want to ride this horse, TELL your instructor. DON'T ride him if you don't want to. If you feel he's holding you back, either learn on a different horse or find somewhere else to learn.

I think it's worth mentioning though (or reminding you, since you've had horses for over 30 years), that horses are like this. Not every one is a responsive, willing, obedient mount, and some are going to be very frustrating. What is it you want to do? Do you just want to ride for fun and play around with a good old schoolmaster, or are you looking to go farther and really expand your talent? If it's the latter, this jerk is a good way to teach it to you. If it's the former, then find a good old push button to ride. It'll be a lot more fun, and you'll find a lot less frustration. I would agree that really tough lesson horses aren't as fun to ride, and that's what horses should be about, right? If you're not having fun, then find a way to.
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Last edited by pintophile; 08-17-2011 at 10:08 AM.
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post #45 of 63 Old 08-17-2011, 11:45 AM
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Could you possibly have your instructor get on him and ride him for you? Just so you could watch and see how he behaves with a trainer on him? And if he behaves, how they got him to behave?

"And somewhere in the northwoods darkness a creature walks upright. And the best advice you may ever get is: Don't go out at night..."
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post #46 of 63 Old 08-17-2011, 12:02 PM
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Pintophile makes extremely good points.

Just an observation though, if you got this uptight & worked up over people not saying what you like or disagreeing with you online, how do you react when the horse doesn't do what you want? Because if it's anything like this, that could be 90% of the problem.
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post #47 of 63 Old 08-17-2011, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by QH Gunner View Post
Pintophile makes extremely good points.

Just an observation though, if you got this uptight & worked up over people not saying what you like or disagreeing with you online, how do you react when the horse doesn't do what you want? Because if it's anything like this, that could be 90% of the problem.
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....and BINGO was his name-o.
I have a lot of thoughts and advice, OP, but having read throug the entire thread, it has become very clear that you are not interested in any constructive input from the point of view I would approach your situation, so good luck.
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post #48 of 63 Old 08-17-2011, 12:48 PM
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When dealing with horses, it's BEST to have an INFINITE amount of PATIENCE.
Anger, or impatience with horses is a bad mixture, and might get somebody hurt.
If you think you've run out of patience, then that's the 'light bulb moment' telling you,...,
You need MORE patience.

Good luck, RELAX, and remember that horses have a brain the size of a walnut.
YOU have to be smarter, because you aren't stronger.
Brute strength does not win a disagreement with a horse.
Try soft quiet reasoning instead.

Also as John Lyons said at one of his many wonderful symposiums,...,
"If your horse jerks you, and you jerk him back,
you just become a couple of jerks, jerking each other around".

Don't become one
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post #49 of 63 Old 08-17-2011, 12:50 PM
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The sun is shining and we should all go ride.

Carpe Diem!

Last edited by Celeste; 08-17-2011 at 12:52 PM. Reason: Decided not to participate
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post #50 of 63 Old 08-17-2011, 01:03 PM
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IMO part of taking lessons is riding different horses and learning to deal with their individual problems. There are some great lesson horses out there but some of them develop bad behaviors from being a lesson horse and having beginner riders on them.

I think that it is boring to just get on a horse that is a total push button. Now Im not saying that I want to ride a horse who rears or bucks etc... But I have and I didn't give up on them I rode them through it. Because that is what makes you a better rider.

You shouldn't expect to always ride a horse that is perfect. I understand if you want to develop your skills more, then yes it is hard to do that on a horse who is giving you problems. But Don't you think that if you stuck with it and learned how to deal with this horses problems that you would feel much better about your self and your riding ability.

Part of riding is riding difficult horse, not dangerous but difficult and when you work through those problems believe me it feels great.
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