Ex-owner hits my horse - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 36 Old 04-25-2010, 08:33 AM
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Wow, I agree with Kevin completely. You may not see your horse as doing anything dangerous, but a horseman that has been around long enough learns to spot everything before it happens. Like he mentioned, something as simple as touching noses can turn into something very dangerous, especially when you are in someone elses barn, have some courtesy. If someone came into my barn and let their horse walk up and touch noses with anyone of my horses, I would not be happy. Its a similar situation on the trail, I've seen a "touch noses" turn into a kicking match because there is no human taking on the role of the leader. I've always been taught in horses that I have a right to protect myself, this right also goes to protect my horses.

I can also understand her frustration, as training can be as easily undone as it can be done. I've seen horses that I've worked with to be respectful companions and mounts get in the hands of someone that didn't hold them to the same standard and yes, it is frusterating.

Just out of curiosity, what have you learned from this? That people shouldn't hit your horse? Or that you shouldn't let your horse be pushy and potentially put other horses in danger? I agree that her presentation may have been lacking, but you obviously weren't taking the situation seriously. If you don't want her hitting your horse, you have two choices, you can avoid interaction with her, or you can control your child. However, I don't think that you can get mad at someone for interfering with a potentially dangerous situation that you willingly allow to happen. Sure, most of the time, a touching nose can be just that, but when that time comes that the other horse spins around and nails you in the leg, you will start to think otherwise.
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post #22 of 36 Old 04-25-2010, 09:09 AM
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Gosh - how unrepectful ! Im horrified !!!

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post #23 of 36 Old 04-25-2010, 09:13 AM
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I don't put up with anyone hitting my horse, yanking him in the mouth or entering his bubble without my permission.

No one, touches Nelson in any negative manner - period.

I don't put up with that B/S!

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post #24 of 36 Old 04-25-2010, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MIEventer View Post
I don't put up with anyone hitting my horse, yanking him in the mouth or entering his bubble without my permission.

No one, touches Nelson in any negative manner - period.

I don't put up with that B/S!
I'm not trying to pick at this, but if you were at the barn and he did something nasty, would you accept punishment from someone else then without your permission?

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post #25 of 36 Old 04-26-2010, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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FlitterBug: She was not worried about it turning dangerous. She was just annoyed that he wasn't "listening to HER". As I said, it feels very much as if there's an element of spite in this: he used to be her main horse and she probably wishes she hadn't sold him.

Do you think it is acceptable to hit a horse in the face when there's a rider on its back?

I may also add that you seem to be making a lot of assumptions.

Last edited by twh; 04-26-2010 at 11:57 PM.
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post #26 of 36 Old 04-27-2010, 12:33 AM
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Flitter, if I was ever riding with you or Kevin and you hit my horse without telling me -I- needed to correct him and giving me a chance to, we would have words. Not nice ones, and I would never ride or visit with you again. It may be your land and your barn, but that doesn't give you alpha over my horse. I realize there is a five second window, but she could have said "make him stop that" rather than just reaching over and smacking him. Why didn't she pull her horse away, if it was engaging in the behavior as well? In both situations, it seems like -both- horses were doing something she didn't like, but only -one- horse got disciplined.

What I really have a problem with in this situation was that the punishment doesn't seem to fit the behavior. There was no ask, no tell. Just the demand, the hurt. Most of the time my boys know to stop a behavior by a sharp noise I make. (it's sort of like AAATCH!) It gets their attention, because it's not a normal sound, and then I can redirect their behavior. Yanking one rein is just mean to me, it bangs the bit around in the mouth horrible-almost like seesawing. She could have just taken the rein and turned the horse's head away from the other horse. Instead, she chose a harsh punishment.

And I would like to mention, sometimes some people on this forum can get downright condescending, and it rankles me. You can give your opinion and advice without being acerbic. *see thread "Should you OWN a horse" for further insight*

"Sit tall in the saddle, hold your head up high. Keep your eyes fixed where the trail meets the sky. And live like you ain't afraid to die...don't be scared, jut enjoy the ride." - Chris LeDoux
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post #27 of 36 Old 04-27-2010, 09:01 AM
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Hoover - I make a living working with people whose horses have gotten the best of them and in many cases seriously injured them. Sadly, I have found that no one likes to listen until someone gets hurt. People don't understand how serious a small issue can be and I have found that to get it through to them, you either have to be a bit harsh, or let them get hurt. Now, this doesn't hold true to all people, but work with enough and you will see that different patterns form around different mentalities and its pretty easy to interpret once you've seen it enough.

Again, too much is being put into the action here and not enough into the meaning behind it. The first situation was a horse in the stall that she let her horse touch noses with, the owner could not control that. Could she have told her, yes, and the OP obviously connected the two things in her mind because she wrote them here for us to read. Did she learn, no, because she let her horse touch the other horses nose again on the trail. I have been on my horse when others did that and I had to tell them to go away before, move my horse, or even physically move their horse. Remember, once I am on my horses back, it is my job to protect them as well as myself.

In each instance that was described to us, the horse was doing something that wasn't acceptable in that persons barn. Whenever I bring my horse to a new barn for lessons, demos, etc, I don't let them wander around and sniff anything anymore that I would pick up everything off your shelves to examine it if I was in your home. It is called respect and I have been taught since I was younger that however ridiculous some peoples rules may be, if you are in their space or using their belongings, you respect that.

So I apologize, yes, the first time, she should have told you not to let your horse do that in her barn for whatever her reason may be, yet the second time, that was your fault, as you had been warned.

I didn't see any assumptions I was making, I used the information given to me. If you had said "we were standing there nicely and she walked up and smacked my horse for no reason" then yes, that would be very unneccessary and rude on her part and I would recommend that you stay away from her. However, what you said is something that I commonly see and with the details that you gave me, that was the conclusion I came to.

As far as him not listening to her, again, this is something I see regularly. If a person is not controlling their horse, then I am going to assume the lead position for the safety of the herd (people and horses). In which case, yes, they would need to listen to me.

As far as hitting him with a rider on his back....... I'm missing the point here. I see it being even more important to have control over your horse if you are on their back. From what you are describing, she made one sharp correction. Not something that was carrying on without meaning. I have never seen a head shy or any other kind of shy horse from an appropriate physical correction. I see shy horses made from inconsistency and poor timing. The jerking on the mouth could have been avoided and she was at fault there. I'm just trying to make you see both sides here, that both parties were at fault. You weren't controlling your horse, and she could have told you verbally the first time and used a different technique the second time.

I apologize if I sound condescending, but it is something that I see far too often. Hoover, I would like to think that if we were riding together, you would not allow your horse to invade my horses space, because if you did more than once, you are right, we would not ride together because I would not compromise my horses safety or my own safety like that.

Remember the quote, "think about what happened before what happened happened." That is how you fix problems. You have to correct the source, not the end result. The source of this problem was the action that the horse made. Could the other person have been nicer in how they handled it? Yes, they could have, and if you don't like what they did, then avoid interaction with them. However, please learn from this and know that you could have controlled your horse. I have sold horses that I wish I hadn't sold, I don't walk up to them and hit them because of it, but if their new owner let them invade my or my horses space, then yes, I would always defend myself.
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post #28 of 36 Old 04-27-2010, 09:48 AM
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I'm not trying to pick at this, but if you were at the barn and he did something nasty, would you accept punishment from someone else then without your permission?
Nope. I would blow a fuse if someone hit my horse.

I pay the barn to take care of my horse, to make sure he is fed and safe. I do not pay any of them to be my horses trainer, or disciplinarian.

There are quite a few naughty horses at the barn I am at, and the men who work there are large and big and can handle any situation that occurs, but NEVER have I EVER seen them hit a horse.

Most of the handlers can get the horse back under control and continue on doing what they were doing, to ensure that the horse and other boarders horses are not in danger.

If my horse was being naughty, they would never discipline him in the manner others here would think - which is striking at the horse - they would just calmly and cooly ride out the scenario and move on.

IF ANYONE jerked my horse in his mouth, or hit him or struck him for any reason what-so-ever - I would rip them a new one, and move to a new barn.

It is absolutely unacceptale to me, to hit a horse that does not belong to you.

I have been asked my boarders to help work with their horses, for instance, I worked with a horse that is hard to load, and I had some pretty interesting situations occur, but not once did I hit the horse.

I've had horses ram into me, I've had horses forget my presence and walk all over me, but I don't hit them. I use my body language to fix the sitation and that works well for me. I learn to read the horses body language to keep one step ahead of the animal.

And I if I see a situation that boarders aren't privvy to picking up on, I'll shout out "Hey, don't let your horse do that, because this is going to happen" and they quickly stop doing what they are doing, grab their horse and move them into a different position to prevent what may occur, from happening.

There is no need to hit someone's horse. There is no need to jar a horse in his mouth.

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post #29 of 36 Old 04-27-2010, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by MIEventer View Post
I pay the barn to take care of my horse, to make sure he is fed and safe. I do not pay any of them to be my horses trainer, or disciplinarian.

So, they are have to deal with your horse and have to put up with any bad behavior your horse decides to do along the way?

I can not imagine telling my barn owner that they are not allowed to punish my horse when he has one of those very rare moments where he forgets he is a good boy.
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post #30 of 36 Old 04-27-2010, 10:03 AM
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I'm with Kevin and Flitter. If your horse is on my horse (nuzzling, rubbing, whatever) and I see you take no action to correct the situation, I will correct it. By not handling the situation - YOU are putting all four of us in potential danger.
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