He went bronc on me, I think I give up... - Page 3
 
 

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He went bronc on me, I think I give up...

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        02-16-2011, 02:26 AM
      #21
    Started
    My neighbour told me today he thinks mitchell is to big and to strong for me... No kidding, he's a full hand bigger than bubbles, 18 years younger, has an incredible amount of muscle... so of course if he wants me off he's going to get me off.

    But him telling me that has kind of made me determined to make it work. I'm not scared to get on him i'm not scared to ride him, i'm just afraid of what I know he can do. When someone tells me I can't do it I get very determined to do it and prove them wrong.
    When I first got bubbles I was told she was very strong, would need riding twice a day and would be very difficult... Now almost 3 years later I can jump on with no reins and ride around the paddock. I've gone from scared crapless of her to knowing at the end of the day I can get on her after getting thrown off any horse and still be happy, and i'm satisfied to know that i've proven a lot of people wrong with her. And I plan to do the same with Mitchell.
         
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        02-16-2011, 02:30 AM
      #22
    Showing
    Good for you! Just stick with him.
         
        02-16-2011, 01:36 PM
      #23
    Started
    I don't know if this has been mentioned but this SCREAMS to me of saddle fit/back pain issues.


    Have you checked your saddle? And checked his back?

    My OTArab has spine damage and he will be fine but if he hits that damaged disc that little guy ca buck 10x harder than any bronc i've seen at the rodeo. As i've had him and learned to understand that, he's had chiro adjustments and i've learned that small circles hurt, etc. and don't do those things with him and do lots of trot exercises so that we can build muscle better.

    Im guessing in the case of your horse not wanting to move forward that even if the pain isn't severe now he's learned that at some point forward = pain.

    Check the saddle fit (check my site equi-eval.com for info and ideas) and stretch him before you ride and longe too - which I saw you are doing and also gives the horse the opportunity to stretch.

    Good luck and i'd be willing to bet the saddle pinches at the top of the shoulders below the withers, and again where the saddle gullet narrows it sits unevenly about 2/3 of the way back from the cantle and is hitting his lower back causing pain. Just a guess though - w/o pictures i'd be hard pressed to tell. Happy to help with saddle fit if you want to post pics!
         
        02-16-2011, 04:24 PM
      #24
    Weanling
    Well, good for you. I have learned that me and tb's don't get along well. They are too high strung and I am not confident enough. I do well with tb mixes though (what do you call that appendix tb?) The mare I ride now is arab/tb which is ironic because I USED to be afraid of arabs...only because I had never ridden one and every one that I knew was really high strung. I wish you luck but I don't think you'll need it, all you needed was that little bit of motivation
         
        02-17-2011, 04:17 AM
      #25
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CJ82Sky    
    i don't know if this has been mentioned but this SCREAMS to me of saddle fit/back pain issues.


    Have you checked your saddle? And checked his back?

    My OTArab has spine damage and he will be fine but if he hits that damaged disc that little guy ca buck 10x harder than any bronc i've seen at the rodeo. As i've had him and learned to understand that, he's had chiro adjustments and i've learned that small circles hurt, etc. and don't do those things with him and do lots of trot exercises so that we can build muscle better.

    Im guessing in the case of your horse not wanting to move forward that even if the pain isn't severe now he's learned that at some point forward = pain.

    Check the saddle fit (check my site equi-eval.com for info and ideas) and stretch him before you ride and longe too - which I saw you are doing and also gives the horse the opportunity to stretch.

    Good luck and i'd be willing to bet the saddle pinches at the top of the shoulders below the withers, and again where the saddle gullet narrows it sits unevenly about 2/3 of the way back from the cantle and is hitting his lower back causing pain. Just a guess though - w/o pictures i'd be hard pressed to tell. Happy to help with saddle fit if you want to post pics!

    I have been told by one professional and several random people that his saddle fits, but these pics are from when I first got him, hopefully it'll give a rough idea. (but the professionals in any type eg chiros and vets never seem to do a proper job so it totally wouldn't suprise me if it actually doesn't fit ) -and that's why I don't have local chiros do work to my horses.

    Mitch 002.jpg

    DSCI0050.jpg
         
        02-17-2011, 11:12 AM
      #26
    Started
    What does the saddle look like w/o a pad?
    Here's what would help in terms of pictures (taken from equi-eval.com):
    Saddle Images
    First, please be sure your horse is clean, groomed and trimmed and that you have something to stand on while taking these pictures to ensure that you can get the necessary angles. All pictures should be taken on solid, level ground with adequate lighting so that the way the saddle lays on the horse’s back can be clearly seen. All pictures should be taken without a saddle pad or girth to assess the true fit of the saddle on the horse.
    •Take pictures of the saddle from both the left and right sides, with the camera level to the center of the side of the saddle and parallel to the ground
    •A picture from the front (facing the tail of the horse) taken of the saddle on the withers, with the camera as close to level as possible with the horse’s head and neck at a normal, comfortable level - having the horse put their head up or down can adversely affect the pictures
    •A rear view picture should also be included showing the saddle on the horse’s back, with the camera as close to level as possible with the top of the horse’s back
    •If possible, include pictures a total of four from the left and right side showing the back flap and the front flap of the saddle with the camera aimed upwards, giving a clear view of how the panels and flaps rest across the horse’s sides

    From the pics you posted so far it looks to me like it clears the withers but pinches in the top of the shoulder. Im also guessing with that deep slightly awkward seat (not a fan of APs - jack of all trades master of none when it comes to position!) that it puts you in a bit of a chair seat with your weight slightly towards the back of the saddle when you sit and your legs from the hip bone a bit out in front of you. That would cause shoulder pain/pinching and stress on his mid-lower back which is a prime trigger for bucking. I'd definitely be curious to hear more from you and see some more pictures.

    Thanks for sharing!
         
        02-17-2011, 12:43 PM
      #27
    Foal
    I just have one piece of advice. I completely disagree with lungeing a horse to get rid of their energy. Instead, find a way to use it. On the flip side, I agree with lungeing a horse before riding for other reasons.

    I am training my green broke mare, and to get her head in the game, as she is very emotional and more high strung, I will lunge her at a flat walk only. She usually starts out a little fast, but in a few minutes she slows down and relaxes. I use parelli games on her so I will ask her to back up, come in, back up, change directions. All at a slow speed.

    When I was a teenager and taking lessons on a TB, he was getting very ring sour. My instructor had every student who rode him, lunge him half an hour before the lesson to get the bugs out, with the same idea, if he is going to buck, get it out on the lunge. Well that horse got in excellent shape, and it did nothing to stop his bad behaviour.

    There must be an underlying cause, a pain issue, saddle fit, etc.

    I agree with whoever suggested a round pen, that is a great tool, and that poster had great advice.

    Good luck and don't give up!
         
        02-17-2011, 11:24 PM
      #28
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CJ82Sky    
    what does the saddle look like w/o a pad?
    Here's what would help in terms of pictures (taken from equi-eval.com):
    Saddle Images
    First, please be sure your horse is clean, groomed and trimmed and that you have something to stand on while taking these pictures to ensure that you can get the necessary angles. All pictures should be taken on solid, level ground with adequate lighting so that the way the saddle lays on the horse’s back can be clearly seen. All pictures should be taken without a saddle pad or girth to assess the true fit of the saddle on the horse.
    •Take pictures of the saddle from both the left and right sides, with the camera level to the center of the side of the saddle and parallel to the ground
    •A picture from the front (facing the tail of the horse) taken of the saddle on the withers, with the camera as close to level as possible with the horse’s head and neck at a normal, comfortable level - having the horse put their head up or down can adversely affect the pictures
    •A rear view picture should also be included showing the saddle on the horse’s back, with the camera as close to level as possible with the top of the horse’s back
    •If possible, include pictures a total of four from the left and right side showing the back flap and the front flap of the saddle with the camera aimed upwards, giving a clear view of how the panels and flaps rest across the horse’s sides

    From the pics you posted so far it looks to me like it clears the withers but pinches in the top of the shoulder. Im also guessing with that deep slightly awkward seat (not a fan of APs - jack of all trades master of none when it comes to position!) that it puts you in a bit of a chair seat with your weight slightly towards the back of the saddle when you sit and your legs from the hip bone a bit out in front of you. That would cause shoulder pain/pinching and stress on his mid-lower back which is a prime trigger for bucking. I'd definitely be curious to hear more from you and see some more pictures.

    Thanks for sharing!

    I will do the photo's when I can, I'm very busy now with level 2 NCEA (darn school, but I'm not going to drop out), and the fact that Mitch isn't even with me right now makes a bit difficult to take photos of him haha.
    When he comes home I will try to do the pictures.

    When you say you think it could pinch behind the shoulders, how do you mean? And does that suggest he should have a wider gullet?

    And while I think about it... Is it possible that it could be me causing him pain? Being that I will never have the most amazing position out there because I have scoliosis both ways and one side of my pelvis is smaller than the other, so naturally I ride crooked whether I like it or not... And because of it, I ALWAYS fall off/get thrown off the right hand side.

    I've put on a recent picture of me riding him, but only one as I only really have pics of me riding bubbles in that saddle. Now I know my position will probably be frowned upon, and my hands are discusting and i'm leaning forwards something terrible, and I do my best to correct it but I'm limited to how much I can correct it even with a trainer. -And that particular day he had this thing about keeping his head near to the ground because there were flies around so my hands were up trying to keep his head up, it worked mostly.
    january.jpg
         
        02-17-2011, 11:27 PM
      #29
    Started
    Super hard to say if it's you causing it and even if it is - such a big reaction is not deserved.

    As for saddle - often what gives wither clearance will then be too narrow for the shoulder. Get wider in the gullet and fit the shoulder but then hit the withers/spine. Makes for a tough to fit horse.

    No rush on pics just trying to help. :)
         
        02-17-2011, 11:34 PM
      #30
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MajorSealstheDeal    
    I just have one piece of advice. I completely disagree with lungeing a horse to get rid of their energy. Instead, find a way to use it. On the flip side, I agree with lungeing a horse before riding for other reasons.

    I am training my green broke mare, and to get her head in the game, as she is very emotional and more high strung, I will lunge her at a flat walk only. She usually starts out a little fast, but in a few minutes she slows down and relaxes. I use parelli games on her so I will ask her to back up, come in, back up, change directions. All at a slow speed.

    When I was a teenager and taking lessons on a TB, he was getting very ring sour. My instructor had every student who rode him, lunge him half an hour before the lesson to get the bugs out, with the same idea, if he is going to buck, get it out on the lunge. Well that horse got in excellent shape, and it did nothing to stop his bad behaviour.

    There must be an underlying cause, a pain issue, saddle fit, etc.

    I agree with whoever suggested a round pen, that is a great tool, and that poster had great advice.

    Good luck and don't give up!
    Generally I use the lunge to let my horses stretch out before I get on them, sure I manually stretch each leg etc before I get on but especially with bubbles who is 25 I like to let her have an extra bit of a stretch before I climb on. (PS wish me luck i'm taking her to a show tomorrow )

    I'm guessing there has to be an underlying cause, I know it's not worms, I know it's not his hooves, so unless it's his previously bowed tendon playing up (it was pretty minor though so I don't think it would be that, he is booted when ridden and I check his legs before and after each ride, and I don't do overly strenuous work eg jumping or riding on hard ground etc), his saddle fit, or his back then I'm pretty sure it's the rich grass. He's next door with our neighbour in a pretty grassless paddock, so if he's still doing it even without the hyperness from the grass then I know he's definitely sore. Even dad said it, the grass is like rocket fuel to his cows at the moment, I'm so lucky bubbles isn't on much grass she goes absolutely nuts.
         

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