Horse runs off under saddle

Michigan. Warm weather this year; global warming. Pruned most of my Paso Fino Rosa in Feb (sorry not great with the horse terminology).

It was so much work with horse #1, Rosa. Lots of time to get her to do all the stuff she could do, professionally trained and won many ribbons, also trail trained and I also trained for weeks and weeks on her before I bought her.

After I brought her home, I saw just how much she resented being sold. Over 6 month bonding and training with a calm ez goin trainer that also fed her, she finally let me ride her and we progressed from there. 5 yrs later Rosa is my trail blazer, super responsive super smart, spirited gal. No one can ride her less want to go for a flying lesson (other than me).

So, I thought well, lets take the EZ way out for horse #2, buy a super cute gentle anyone can ride her school horse. Cute as a button, wouldn't hurt a fly, super docile and submissive, Ha Ha the Joke is on me. I am the new barn Ass - took that title from the donkey.

I bought Laila, super laid back yet super sturdy 50 miler endurance but a well used "school horse" 7 yr old Morab Mare also used and handled by local kids.

Thought - yep, this is going to be the horse I throw the saddle on and off we go into the sunset - so easy, so gentle, so sweet, such a great mover, durable, submissive, EZ keeper, hard as rock hoofs, used for kids, right?

Laila lets you think you are in charge, but Laila is THE BOSS Laila is the ONE in charge she, is just super patient and charming and cute as a button wouldn't hurt a fly but not easy to train after the KIDS have let her have her way for 4 yrs.

KIDS ruin horses, yep - they do. And school horses school people..duh, not the other way around, not sure what I was thinking...

Here is where we are now with our 2 week old relationship. This was so charming at first, now it is not as cute, now it is downright a who is going to win, Laila or Liz contest.

Liz to "Laila, Lets go Laila, not going to give you treats, I alreay pet your head, lets go Laila, yes you are cute but lets go Laila".

Liz to Laila, "Laila we have ground work to do, Laila, no I am not going to rub your head again, Laila, just did that, Laila, pay attention, good girl, no you arent getting a treat for that Laila, sorry no, no don't be giving me your head again to rub, I don't care how cute you are ...."

Laila to Liz, "human, you are supposed to pet me, give me treats, pet me, give me treats, don't you get it, did the super smart kids forget to school you, here we go again, Liz this is my head, pet my head, see my cute little mouth, put a treat into my mouth, I won't bite, go ahead Liz, just jump on my back oh yeah I really prefer bareback but I guess you can use a saddle if you must, I will take you out for a ride and we can go grazing together now isn't that fun, Liz. Don't get too firm with me Liz ...hey, look at me just STOP, Ha Ha when are you going to get it human, now, pet my head.."

Liz to Laila, "Laila, no, I am not going to pet your head, watch me push you away, no girl, no more petting, this ain't the petting zoo"

Laila to Liz, " boss me around, even the slightest firmness I just don't go so you may as well just quit it now. Now, Liz lets do some groundwork together, shall we

Liz to Laila, "knock it off....back to work"

Laila to Liz, "dumb human, here we go again, my HEAD is down and I am submissive. Just take your hand and rub my head, see I am not pushy, I don't bit or even nip jump spook, I am just soooo super cute and sweet, now Liz, hand up and RUB my head, OK got that one Liz,

Now give me a treat why can't you get that one down we have been through this over and over and you are not that smart.....

Where are those Super Smart KIDS that I have schooled, so much more to my liking, so much smarter, they are trained in 2 seconds, and we have been at this 2 weeks....

How long is it going to take for me to train you Liz,

Liz to Laila, "lets try to move with dressage cues, OK, I will push you around physically won't hurt you just move"

Laila to Liz, "whip, Ha Ha, I nibble at those, look, aren't I cute? Now heres my head, rub it please. ...you are not too smart, are you human...Rope with popper, Ha Ha, see me nibble and take it away from you aren't I cure, Ha Ha now treat please

Hay that was a really cute great trick I just did for you, you just don't appreciate me yet, when I nibble on these thing'ees that you use to try to train me, that's your CUE Liz to stop it now and pet me and give me a treat, where are the KIDS where are the KIDS, OK Liz, now, my head, your hand, my treat..."

I will keep you posted on how far we get and when.

This super laid back super docile Laila may be the one that BREAKS me yet.

2 weeks now, this has been the ongoing daily relationship, nothin has changed, pocket pet, she is trying so hard and is so patient, tryin to school me it stopped being cute or funny long time ago.....

Laila gives "school horse" a whole new meaning.......

Hopefully she will come around -

Less I just give in and give her to the KIDS or Zoo

KIDS ruin horses 'cause HORSES are just too darn smart, smarter than us humans, amazing they ever let us have our way, they can and will outsmart us, just by acting so cute and adorable ....

Liz

That was funny, I like how you did voice of the horse. LOL

That is how my daughters paint, sugar, was when we first got her. Yes ANYONE could get on her but making he move and mind was a differant story. After a few days of the same thing you described the "cute nibble on the whip", I had to "bite" her with the it to get her moving in the round pen. After I got her feet moving it didn't take long for her to figure it out. When we would change direction she had a BAD habbit of coming in on you and if you didn't move she would bump you. So before I turned the strick over to my 9 YO daughter I had to "nip" her on the neck, just once, when she tried to be pushy. Now my daugther can get in the round pen with her and sugar is almost 100% respectfull, she will go left, right, turn in, turn out, walk, trot, and come in to you on cue. She will disengage front and hind qtrs. She will walk over tarps, you can bounce balls off her front & rear legs and no movement at all. She is almost bomb proof, she has a problem with noisy trailers on the road. When my daughter rides her she is almost 100% respectfull under saddle, the only habit she has is trying to turn for home. The first couple of times my daughter had to turn her around a few times to get her to remeber who was in charge, but now if she trys, Grace just tells her "no" and makes an adjustment with the rains and Sugar falls in line. If someone new gets in the saddle Sugar will test them and see if they will make her listen, if they don't make her listen she will set the bit and they will have a hard time with her. Whenever one of Graces friends comes over and wants to ride Sugar I tell them as soon as she tries to do something on her own get heavy on the bit for just a couple pulls then let her have loose rain. 90% of the time this works and she will not test them again.

Anyway my point is do not be afraid to use the stick to simulate a "nip" or "bite" just as any higher ranking horse would do with their teeth. I only had to nip sugar 2 or 3 times before she got the idea, now when she starts to get a bit pushy or can't remember who the bass is all she has to do is hear the stick whip the air and she is on the move.

Well, today we took our first lesson with my barn manager / trainer; one of the best horsemen I have ever met; 55 yrs in the business.

First 5 minutes in the rope and halter, he says, "What were thinin? Liz, this horse is below what we even call what we call GREENbroke, no training at all, no way a school horse, doubt you can even ride her, no way a horse you can ride, see she is draggin her foot, see her tail, she is whippin me with it like its a dressage whip, look at her ears, she WONT even go counter clock wise at all, even a movement that way - nothin...how you say you rode her around the arena? No way, I am guessing she's got some neurological disorder, can't even move her foot to the left, see her draggin it like hoof is broke, won't even let me handle her feet, you said they had a farrier trim her, must have drugged her, never seen this before even with a GREEN never handled horse their HOOFS move when you do this bla bla ..."

I said "SPOILED, passive aggressive mare that thinks she is a PET HORSE, handled by lots of kids, rides fine, took riders that never been on a horse around the arena a few times, got her head rubbed, treats, wants to be a PET horse, not a real horse and she is a good size muscled out gal. I rode her rode her rode she walks out fast, has a gorgeous smooth trot especially on the straight, good on the round and does move nicely counter clockwise

Well, my trainer knows I am no cowgirl, so he kept on going

He would have stopped given her "totally off the range, never seen a human, sorry trainer, don't get it, nay nay its going to be a really long day attitude"

But I said, nail her butt, however whatever it takes, she is playin you like you are a total fool, Laila is the smartest darn most spoiled horse and she is playin with you so you will give up, she is playin a game and runnin the show here, its getting funny sorry Steve but seriously, don't let this spoiled mare give you the "I am a totally never seen a human GREEN horse, its getting late dinner is waitin'...dumb ass human"

I said "do whatever you want to her, whoop the snot out of her"

Now, Laila is still swoshin that tail, like she is whippin us, ears pinned, legs broken, at least one depending on which way you want her to move, oh...there she goes with the "pet my head please and I will ge a good girl"


So, I stook back just watchin. I put my bet on Steve, my horse manager / trainer.

Within 20 minutes, he had that darn spoiled brat movin in a circle round the arena, really rough trot said "nothin you can post to, nothin you can sit, a GREEN horse"

I kept firm in my "SHE's a SPOILED ROTTEN HORSE", go make her do it


Amazing, 20 minute fight, finally bridles her, adds saddle, reins behind saddle, wack the saddle wack the saddle as obviously, horse don't care if you wack her, doesn't scare her...

Well, she finally gave in.

Put me on that horse (I was not afraid cause I rode her already), and gosh darn she had her head set right, lovely smooth trot, no spoiled horse, stopped on command, responsive, attentive

30 minutes later we ended the lesson

We have the vet comming out anyway to check out these "legs that drag" hopefully just another game of hers, have not seen it before

I will NEVER buy a kids handled kids horse again, ever. Give me a GREEN horse, these horses are just so darn smart, its easier to train them if they are green than untrain them if they are SPOILED rotten, as they know every trick in the book, and have gotten treats for poor behavior (cute as it may be, bad spoiled rotten behavior).

BTW:

I had to give the barn mini ASS back his Title because he is so gosh darn smart, the smartest animal I have ever encountered

If your manager/trainer was making a call after 5 min in the round pen you better find a better trainer. Either he didn't want to try or dosn't know what he's talking about. You can't tell anything about a horses training untill you can get them moving, then they will start to show you what they know. The horse at the top of the pecking order is the one that can move every other horse in the herd, you move the feet you move up in rank.

One thing to keep in mind if your horse is that smart she will know the differance between you and the trainer, that's why I don't put my faith in any trainer that picks up your horse takes it for a month and brings it back "broke".

For example with my my daughters (Grace) horse, Sugar, I started round pen training and she would hardly move. After a couple days she was doing it all. Then I handed the stick & rope ofer to Grace and she went back to acting like an untrained horse. So I step back in the circle, with Grace and teach her By standing behind her and controlling her arm and hand movements (just like teaching her to swing a baseball bat) how to move Sugar. The next day Grace is goes it alone and after about 5 min of Sugar pissing around Grace get her going. Two days later Grace can get her to do all the things Sugar had been trained to do. My point to all this make sure you are doing the training to build the trust with your horse.

I used to do a lot of mounted games when I was a child in England and my ponies were very sharp - 0 to 60 in seconds, stop dead and turn to very light commands. In the right hands they were perfect in the wrong hands quite dangerous. My mare who I retired last year is also very 'hot' and can get excitable but safe as houses to me because what she does is what I grew up used too. I literally just have to 'think' the aids and ride her with a very relaxed seat. If someone rode her with too much pressure and tension she would be just like the horse you describe. I've had her for 18 years and she has always been the same, it could be that you are not the right sort of rider for this sort of horse and if things don't settle down should consider moving him on to someone who is used to his type and will calm him and enjoy him for what he is.
A lot of horses hate a severe bit and as someone else said already will panic and run away from it. There is a difference between a horse that's hard to hold because its strong and likes to run and one that is bolting out of panic or fear/pain
Get his back checked out by your veterinarian as he may have pain there
Check your saddle fits correctly, if its western is that what he's used too. I also have a mare that gets a bit antzy if ridden without a good thick numnah/saddle pad. Some horses really struggle with even a little bit of discomfort and that soon turns to tension.
Get his poo sampled for worms - they can get resistant to wormers and a belly full of parasites can turn the best horses into fractious rides
Have him tested for Lymes disease, it doesn't always cause lameness in affected animals but can cause serious neurological problems
Get his teeth checked, a mare of ours was still eating fine but began acting very similar to your horse under saddle, turned out she had a bad abcess at the back of her mouth, She was ridden in a hackamore until it healed.
We once bought an ex racehorse that also behaved like yours, he actually began sweating the moment a rider got on him he was so stressed, we cured him by leading him without a rider off a very solid reliable horse for a few weeks until he got the idea that working with a saddle on was not something to get worked up about we then put a rider on him and did the same for a few months, starting off in an enclosed area and then out onto the trails. He gradually learnt to relax and became probably the best showjumper we ever owned. He was always forward going but totally reliable. The same thing worked for a pony we had that behaved in the same way
I often think its been caused by severe abuse from a rider and the bolting is their natural fear/flight reaction kicking in
Good luck and keep the thread posted with your progress or whatever you decide to do. Remember - Riding is supposed to be FUN

All recommendations are so right

Laila is fine. Vet checked out just fine. Lunged for vet like pefect lady. Just 7 yrs old and SMART as all get out.



My trainer thought I should have gotten vet check up front instead of payin $1000 down payment for 2 week trial

(He did not know the contract - was whippin me)

Vet came today to do the entire barn and Laila. She acted like a perfect angle for him, lunged just fine, no leg draggin, no attitude, just was testing us, pushing our buttons, ridden by kids with one former "master", just tryin us

Deal done, I now pay the vet and the balance due on the purchase contract
(seriously, loved her from day one but wanted a 2 week trial so paid more)

Now, set up (bit, saddle), training of ME (duh).

Never have seen a horse drag is back left to the right actin lame for 20 minutes putting up a fit or rage before.

Have seen lazy horses, I have a super high strung Paso that will throw you if you don't ride her right

Never have seen a horse act so lame draggin' that leg like that before

Learn somethin new everyday

Now, more lessons, me horse trainer.

Not sure about anyone else, my 4th horse (hay I am pushin the big "50").

Every time I get a new horse, no matter how young, how old, how trained, how used....it takes me lots of time to "master" the horse.

They are just too darn smart.

See ya

Hope things are working out for you and the mare, sounds so odd, I would have sent her back myself and moved on. Why buy a problem like that? We don't bounce so well when we get into our 50's. You would soon get to love one that was more deserving of your time, cash and passion.
If things aren't any better I'd question that vets diagnosis because it sounds like maybe a stifle or patella problem that can come and go in the early stages. A slipping patella will cause leg dragging with the hoof turned upwards, they will go back in place especially if you back the horse up sharply
Did you get a Lymes test done?

Good luck

Update Wally is now riding down the road and acting like a peferct (almost) gentalmen with my wife riding him. He still gets jacked up but no longer tries to bolt out and run. He will get jacked up with his head high and start prancing into a trot but with the right cues from my wife he will calm back down to a regular walk.

So it looks like going back to the basics and building trust betweet the horse and ride is paying off.

Awesome! I'd still keep a good eye on him for a bit, just to make sure he really "gets" it that humans aren't going to hurt him.

Oh yes. We need to get in many miles before we reach the 100% comfortable mark.