Horse taking over - Page 11 - The Horse Forum
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post #101 of 200 Old 06-27-2011, 07:18 AM
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wow, no mean horses ai?

dsj i read all your posts, very preachy and one minded.

so tell me how a ottb that has been well taken care of turn into a horse that maliciously kick the owner in the face when on the ground defenceless??
a real horseman/women learns on their feet, they learn by looking outside their box. i met a horsemen and went to his clinic, he uses old school methods and common sense, and he also recommends the parelli 7 games. he doesn't discount any method if it works, if it's what suits the horse.

sorry, but you sound like your only in one mind and that's all you see is that. how about you look outside your cozy box and see it from the outside.

some people can't afford to keep all the horses they want or have owned. i for example agist my horses on a property, some people don't own land to horde the horses that they can't ride. why on earth would you pay for a horse to sit in a paddock on someone elses property that you can't do anything with. my horses need to earn a place with me forever. ozzie has and barney is on the right track. some people just don't click with some horses, i got barney off a lady that was terrified of him and they didn't click, i have less experience then her and i got on this horse and less then 2 weeks of owning him i felt safe to take him out to compete. no it's not about the ribbons. i go to socialise and have fun as a team with my horse, gives us both a goal to work towards. i have plenty of ribbons but very few are blue. a ribbon is a bonus, not the reason i ride or compete.
you have basically called everyone that competes a ribbon hog, that all they want is ribbons and no one cares about the horse. i think your thinking of hacking. you don't know these people on here from a bar of soap and your telling them they don't care and they are wrong because it's not what you would do. well you have 1 opinion and everyone else has one each too, so that kinda drowns out yours. offer advise and stop tearing everyone else apart.

dreamer, this horse may or maynot be right for you. do what's best for you and your horse. if that means parting ways, then so be it. you can refuse to sell or give the horse to someone that doesn't have the right experience or personality for the horse. you don't have to give him to the first person with money.

good luck

dsj, check out this website, this might open your eyes abit.

Elly ::: Diam ::: Ozzie
~~~Introducing Barney~~~
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post #102 of 200 Old 06-27-2011, 01:16 PM
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I am being preachy. I am preaching the gospel of responsibility.

And I know enough about living beings to know that any living being does not just go to bed at night nice and suddenly wake up mean.

As to the OTTB you mentioned that kicked the owner in the face. Boy, I never put my face in the way of my horse's hooves. Horses kick for a lot of reasons. Hardly ever with murderous intent. If the owner had her face where it shouldn't have been, my advice would be not to put your face where a horse's hoof might get at it. If you mean that the owner had been thrown and was on the ground, the horse was frightened by something. It kicked out scared. (That's what horses do.) It's not some abusive boyfriend. It's a horse.

Someone accused me of anthropomorphizing, but seriously, that seems to be what a lot of you all are doing. Can a horse have a behavior problem? Yes. But only as a human defines behavior problem--a horse is always just being a horse--not "mean." An animal doesn't have that kind of forethought. A horse's mind is not as complex as a human mind, and we can mess them up as well as clean them up. If they have a behavior problem, it's usually the human's fault (some trainers say always.) If they get straight and become good horsies (as we definie "good"--a horse is neither good nor bad--a horse is just being a horse), then it is because of the human.

To me, the really dangerous advice here to give HD is "go out and get a nice, sedate horsie." No horse is completely safe or bomb proof. At times, they all buck, rear, kick, whirl with us in the saddle, and all sorts of mean, nasty ugly things. But for the love of Buddha, not because they are mean--because they are prey animals that get scared of seemingly irrational things, and if they get chronically scared, they get defensive. (Can someone at least chime in on the basics of horse psychology here? I mean, we have all these wonderful seasoned veterens!) I am glad I have had to work through the problem I have with my horse. Dose of reality. First thing to learn up front: any horse can do anything at any time.

Last edited by DSJ46; 06-27-2011 at 01:26 PM.
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post #103 of 200 Old 06-27-2011, 01:39 PM
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First thing to learn up front: any horse can do anything at any time.

Ain't that the truth? I swear they understand when you say "oh, my horse never does that" in front of them. Then they set out to make a liar of you.
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post #104 of 200 Old 06-27-2011, 01:41 PM
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Good example. I was riding last night when a sudden volley of fireworks spooked up my horse (should I sell or euthanize?) Now, my horse was going along like a Valium until this happened, and suddenly all 1,300 pounds whipped and whirled good and hard and would have taken off full tilt boogie if I had been thinking "nice, sedate horsie." I rode out the spook and asserted my authority (with shortened reins and my voice--not with hitting) so she came to hand. But I dealt with this horse's problems (with fear, not meanness) for a long while, up front and personal, so I never go to sleep in the saddle. More naive or young horse owners need professional help. That was no doubt HD's problem, right there. And it's what she needs to get right with Max--or any horse. Her threads scream it. It's what she needs a lot more than a new horse. In fact, a new horse could be more dangerous to her than Max. At least she won't ever fall asleep on Max. We have to learn to sit a keg of dynamite every time we get aboard any horse.

I am just stunned...stunned...that people who say they have been with horses for all these years don't seem to get what I am saying

Last edited by DSJ46; 06-27-2011 at 01:44 PM.
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post #105 of 200 Old 06-27-2011, 01:42 PM
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Thank you, Waresbear! ; )
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post #106 of 200 Old 06-27-2011, 01:51 PM
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Sure, even bombproof horses have their moments when their pray animal instincts are very obvious. I don't think anyone is arguing that fact. Or the fact that many behavioral problems can be fixed. They surely can.

However from what I understand, the OP is a beginner and possibly also quite young. Horses should be fun. Absolutly you could respond that we have a responsibility towards them and if we want fun with a lack of responsibility buy an xbox. I won't argue that.

However I think for the OP, she is outhorsed. I don't think it would be difficult for an experienced or even confident intermediate equestrian to turn this horse around fast. That is not the case with the OP though. She lacks the confidence to make proper training possible. So my suggestion would be to either work with a competent trainer in fixing this horse, or pass it on to someone who could fix it. I do not think this would be a death sentence at all.

On a larger scale, I do not think theres anything wrong with selling a horse when it no longer suits your needs. I'm being a bit of a hypocrite here because I refuse to sell my fat pasture puff of a horse I haven't ridden in a good 8 months. He has earned himself a home with me until he drops dead.
However there is nothing wrong with selling your horse in my opinion. This is why proper breeding, training, etc are all important -- to ensure that when you sell your horse, he has a chance. I agree again.

However in this case when I see a beginner/young individual who is scared of her horse, I would rather see the horse sold than the human injured. If she were my student, I would get her confident on a packer, and then step her up to a horse slightly beyond her level of comfort as she learned. That or have her getting consistant lessons on a horse to build her confidence while working with a trainer or experienced horse person to fix her issues with Max.

Rant over..
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post #107 of 200 Old 06-27-2011, 02:09 PM
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Can't really argue with your logic, Dove. Which is a heck of a lot more than I can say for a lot of these other posters out there getting abused by horses.

I guess I was just raised to tough things out and stick to it, and all that. Some of the most rewarding things in my life have come that way.

I guess if she is going to get rid or Max, my advice would be, don't get another horse at all. Ride other people's horses to get confidence. But don't risk having this happen again. There are too many horses in the world with too many problems to create yet another one. Max seemed nice to you up front, and so will the next one. Your timidity will bring out rebellion in the next one too.

And people, please, please, please, all those who have talked about "mean" some horse psychology.
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post #108 of 200 Old 06-27-2011, 02:16 PM
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OP, I think you should start by finding yourself a good trainer. Discuss the situation with someone who is there and can see you and your horse. Let them help you decide if you and your horse can be fixed either separate or together.
Maybe the trainer working on your horse while you build confidence on an older been there done that schoolie might work well.

In the end, it never hurts to admit that you and a specific horse are not a good match. Not every horse gets along with every rider. (Just like not every person gets along with the same people, etc.) No harm in finding the horse a home that works better for it and you looking for a new horse that better works for your situation.

I wish you luck.
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post #109 of 200 Old 06-27-2011, 02:20 PM
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HD? Are you still out there? Maybe you could ring in on what you are thinking about all this?

If nothing else, you have started what is no doubt going to be the longest forum thread in Internet history...
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post #110 of 200 Old 06-27-2011, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DSJ46 View Post
I guess if she is going to get rid or Max, my advice would be, don't get another horse at all. Ride other people's horses to get confidence. But don't risk having this happen again. ...
I think this is the best way to learn. Ride a bunch of different horses. Take lessons or just lease a bunch of horses as you progress. I think it makes you a really confident, well-rounded rider.
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