Lifting the back! - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 27 Old 01-31-2013, 11:29 PM
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I agree with Kayty. Any gizmo, gadget or thingamajig that makes training a horse seem easy is a gimic. O-ring snaffle, time, balance, consistency, effort...
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post #12 of 27 Old 02-04-2013, 05:22 PM
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i have a similar question....not to steal your thread :) If i have my horse moving foreward, his back free and swinging, his legs tracking, and over tracking a bit...If i hold me outside rien and apply inside leg his head will drop and neck will round. however his back doesnt lift! I take dressage lessons with a grand prix rider, and she never mentions it....but i always wonder! is it just a more advanced concept? does he need more muscle? is that still a correct 'frame' or 'headset'? *again...sorry if this is stealing a thread, but i dont wand to make repetitive ones :)*
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post #13 of 27 Old 02-04-2013, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by princecharming View Post
i have a similar question....not to steal your thread :) If i have my horse moving foreward, his back free and swinging, his legs tracking, and over tracking a bit...If i hold me outside rien and apply inside leg his head will drop and neck will round. however his back doesnt lift! I take dressage lessons with a grand prix rider, and she never mentions it....but i always wonder! is it just a more advanced concept? does he need more muscle? is that still a correct 'frame' or 'headset'? *again...sorry if this is stealing a thread, but i dont wand to make repetitive ones :)*
This depends on what you are thinking is a lifting of his back.
If he is truly swinging his back, working into a contact and round through his 'frame', his back will 'lift'.
It is dependent on the rider's sense of feel as to whether they can actually detect this 'lifting' of the back or not. Some riders just have not had the hours in the saddle and experience, or just lack feel, to be able to feel that subtle raising feeling under the saddle.
Your best bet is to get a lesson videoed, then look at it with your coach giving commentary on when you have your horse's back, and when you are in a 'false frame'.
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post #14 of 27 Old 02-04-2013, 08:04 PM
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i can feel it, but its very small, just feels lighter...I suppose i was expecting something more dramatic :) For sure going over videos with my coach
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post #15 of 27 Old 02-04-2013, 08:32 PM
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I have to ask.....since this has come up......my horse has just had a chiro visit and I have to work on stretching the base of his neck......so I've been riding him on a VERY draped rein (in fact the more I let out, the lower his head goes!) and I've been doing a LOT of jogging.......and it FEELS really good, he is straight and his barrel is just swinging from side to side quite dramatically and he works up quite a sweat.......

this lowered head and barrel swinging is a good thing I suspect......if he swings his barrel and has his head and neck low and relaxed with no contact from me but a little squeezing here and there for encouragement from me.....is that considered long and low and does it mean he is using his back......he can work like this all relaxed for half an hour with little breaks here and there, and he does sweat!
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post #16 of 27 Old 02-04-2013, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muppetgirl View Post
I have to ask.....since this has come up......my horse has just had a chiro visit and I have to work on stretching the base of his neck......so I've been riding him on a VERY draped rein (in fact the more I let out, the lower his head goes!) and I've been doing a LOT of jogging.......and it FEELS really good, he is straight and his barrel is just swinging from side to side quite dramatically and he works up quite a sweat.......

this lowered head and barrel swinging is a good thing I suspect......if he swings his barrel and has his head and neck low and relaxed with no contact from me but a little squeezing here and there for encouragement from me.....is that considered long and low and does it mean he is using his back......he can work like this all relaxed for half an hour with little breaks here and there, and he does sweat!
I'm on the "?" side of this, but I did have one comment-- the more draped rein = lower head sounds like he is seeking contact with the bit, which is awesome! I would consider what you are describing as "long and low." Let's see what the experts have to say, hehe.
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post #17 of 27 Old 02-04-2013, 09:21 PM
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Muppet, if you can feel him swinging over his back, then that is a good thing. Having him reaching into the bridle and lengthen from the wither will really help the issues with the base of his neck.

When I first bought Spighi, he was very build up at the top of his neck, and had a hollow in front of his wither and was VERY hollow over his back - it almost looked like a sway back seeing as he is very slightly bum high.
Since working him quite round, a little deep and really stretching from the wither, both of these areas have built up to the point that you can barely notice that there was a problem there. So many horses are ridden with a dip in front of the wither, rather than pushing the ears forward and away from the rider - leading to a lot of these neck and wither issues.

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post #18 of 27 Old 02-04-2013, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Kayty View Post
Muppet, if you can feel him swinging over his back, then that is a good thing. Having him reaching into the bridle and lengthen from the wither will really help the issues with the base of his neck.

When I first bought Spighi, he was very build up at the top of his neck, and had a hollow in front of his wither and was VERY hollow over his back - it almost looked like a sway back seeing as he is very slightly bum high.
Since working him quite round, a little deep and really stretching from the wither, both of these areas have built up to the point that you can barely notice that there was a problem there. So many horses are ridden with a dip in front of the wither, rather than pushing the ears forward and away from the rider - leading to a lot of these neck and wither issues.
Kayty.....Spighi sounds just like my guy over the back! Do you know how pleased I am to read what you just wrote! He swings through the barrel so much that anyone riding behind me will comment because they can see me swaying from side to side while he jogs, it's really comfy and relaxing to ride to as well and my reins are completely draped, no contact whatsoever.......SO since this is an easy thing for us to do then I guess we will have no problem working and stretching that top line!!!! He also develops quite a sweat doing this!

Note to self.....push ears forward!

Thank you Kayty!! I feel like I'm doing something good for my horse now!!!
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post #19 of 27 Old 02-04-2013, 10:45 PM
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Yep - push ears away from your belly button ;)
No matter what you're doing, ears away from belly!!! Never never never bring the neck backwards or you'll end up with that blasted dip in front of the wither!

I'll have to dig up some photo's of Speeg when I got him, and how he wanted to work - short neck, no stretch from the wither, bum high with a hollow back. "Pretty" frame for a pony clubber, definitely not what I want!!!!

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post #20 of 27 Old 02-04-2013, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Kayty View Post
Yep - push ears away from your belly button ;)
No matter what you're doing, ears away from belly!!! Never never never bring the neck backwards or you'll end up with that blasted dip in front of the wither!

I'll have to dig up some photo's of Speeg when I got him, and how he wanted to work - short neck, no stretch from the wither, bum high with a hollow back. "Pretty" frame for a pony clubber, definitely not what I want!!!!
I feel like I've had a major light bulb moment.....got to love that! And yes some pics would be nice!
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