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Need some clarifying on picking up leads

This is a discussion on Need some clarifying on picking up leads within the Horse Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category

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        01-05-2012, 07:02 AM
    It could be many health related things, back yes, as mentioned, but one of mine started doing this type of thing as he developed arthritis on his hocks. The stiffness on one side was keeping him from wanting to canter on that lead. I would also believe you may have more going on here than a "stubborn" horse who just needs more spur. Could be hips, also..... I also think that there may well be a fair amount of confusion on the horses part also. JMHO.
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        01-05-2012, 07:07 AM
    Green Broke
    Originally Posted by franknbeans    
    It could be many health related things, back yes, as mentioned, but one of mine started doing this type of thing as he developed arthritis on his hocks. The stiffness on one side was keeping him from wanting to canter on that lead. I would also believe you may have more going on here than a "stubborn" horse who just needs more spur. Could be hips, also..... I also think that there may well be a fair amount of confusion on the horses part also. JMHO.

    Agreed.. unless you have a schoolmaster or a forgiving horse, some/most have one way or the highway. The fact one of you rides with spurs, one without, one in a snaffle, one in a curb... JMO but I try and keep the tack on horse and human the same for every rider.

    Fully recommend having a health check on your horse, didn't even think about hocks and hips, thanks franknbeans!
        01-05-2012, 08:02 AM
    He was checked by a vet and a chiropractor 2 months ago and he's sound. It's really not as big of a deal as I think ya'll are making it out as, usually just one crow hop the first time I ask for canter, once he knows I'm consistent he doesn't do it the rest of the ride.

    Both of our saddles fit him good, and we both use plenty of padding, a navajo rug and either an air ride or a weaver neoprene on top.

    We are both riding with spurs now, and I don't think riding him in 2 different bits is a big deal, as he responds very well to both. My mare is ridden with anything from an english bridle with a high port to western french links and everything inbetween depending on who rides her and she never seems confused.

    And he's not confused we ride him in a very similar manner, which is why I'm making sure the cues she uses won't confuse him with a curb bit, as that is what she wants to transfer him to. I ride alot of different horses for different people and I understand the importance of riding in a similar manner, which is why I am sure what cues they use with their horse. The the only thing I thought might be confusing him was the picking up on the rein with the curb bit as a cue.

    The goal with this horse is for my girlfriend to learn how to ride in spurs, transition him from the snaffle to a curb, stop him from crow hopping in the first transition, and put a lot of trail miles on him. I am not trying to argue in any sort, and I appriciate the help ya'll are giving me, I know you are just concerned for the horses well being. Just want to make sure we are on the same page.
        01-05-2012, 08:07 AM
    Green Broke
    The only problem with the internet is we only have your information, we don't get to see the horse and rider in action ;)

    The normal eliminations for crow hopping, or any daft behaviour is pain, tack, training. Once you've eliminated pain, tack, its training... whether it be confusion of aids, resistance to aids or lack of understanding on the horse's part- hence why we asked ref back, hock and hips.
        01-05-2012, 08:07 AM
    Not to be rude or snarky, but if you have all the answers, as it seems from your post, why did you ask for help? Just curious. You KNOW the horse is not hurting, you KNOW the tack ALL fits perfectly, you KNOW you are both riding identically so the horse is in NO way what are you looking for here? Just to know if the rein with a curb can be confusing? Look at the mechanism of how a curb works as opposed to a snaffle, and you may be able to answer that too.
        01-05-2012, 08:08 AM
    Not sure you need to transition to a curb bit right off the bat if you need a more severe bit.

    Not all snaffles are created equal and there are many snaffle designs that affect the bars, corners, tongue, and roof of the mouth with more or less severity.
        01-05-2012, 08:26 AM
    Really I was just curious what ya'll think about the curb bit and picking up on the rein. I know I do not have all the answers, or I would know what to do to eliminate the crow hop.

    But again I want it to be sure that I am not trying to be argumentive or rude, it's hard to relay intentions of a post over the internet. If I knew how to get a video on here I would as I have some of her riding him.

    I believe it's just his training, as he always won when he crow hopped and trotted with my girlfriend. He threw her and stepped on her, rupturing her spleen and breaking 2 ribs, so she has been a little nervous when he crow hops and doesn't want to push him too much. He is pretty much dead to my leg cues, I'm not sure why but that's why I started in spurs, which he responded pretty well to.

    Again I am open to all suggestions as I know you are just trying to help.
        01-05-2012, 08:31 AM
    Green Broke
    Put a jesus handle on, get someone confident on him, reins in a knot and put the lunge on and make him do it, crow hopping and all to make him realise he can't do it.

    I can't, however give any advise on a curb...
        01-05-2012, 08:33 AM
    Keep in mind that the crow hop is a learned behavior that, as you say, he has "won" with for a while now. It takes a long time to retrain something like that and perhaps, just perhaps it is as simple as LOTS of time and patience AND CONSISTENCY. Unfortunately much longer than to learn something correctly in the first place. Perhaps only one person should be riding him for a while (like 90 days) until he has it straight? That is what some trainers fact, I cannot ride mine for at LEAST the first 90 days he is with the reining trainer to insure he does not get confused at all. One rider and only one.
        01-05-2012, 09:31 AM
    To upload a video on here, you need to upload it on something like youtube first (ideal since they have the least problems I've found) and there's an option to not make it public. Then all you do is copy the URL of the video and paste it here.

    You just have to ride it out, OP. And be consistent, like we've been telling you on our posts :) I think you're having more success with him since you haven't fallen off in some time (you said the last time was out of the ring, hence why you were in there yes?)

    It would be helpful to have a video though. Maybe not one with her since that was some time ago and could not help since horses change every ride.. could she make one of your riding recently?

    He could be dead to leg aids because he was ridden previously with hard cues, rather than soft ones in conjunction with body movements like weight shifting, contracting, deepening, etc.

    But one problem at a time! Just keep it up, like franknbeans said, it's a learned behavior so it'll take a lot of consistency and a lot of correct riding to get through it and unteach him.

    What would help, though, is to keep the cantering under saddle shorter when he gives it to you right away, and be sure to praise him. Sometimes I give my horse a treat after he does some awesome canter work and the next time, he does even better and he gets treated in other ways like cooling off bareback or grazing or whatnot.

    Good luck :)

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