Professionals demonstrating my "Opinion"--watch these vids - Page 11 - The Horse Forum
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post #101 of 123 Old 06-29-2011, 04:32 AM Thread Starter
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I mean, ok Lis, as long as you qualify it that way. The danger, and we have seen it here a lot, is that you start using terms like that and people begin to believe a horse can plot out a malicious act. They think it has turned "mean" and thus can't be retrained. It has made a moral decision. Horses can't do that. Thus, we can help them. They aren't malicious. We can retain a lot of them. (Not all--but not because they are malicious with aforethought. Only because they are too screwed up--usually by humans.)
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post #102 of 123 Old 06-29-2011, 04:34 AM Thread Starter
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I believe my horse loves me. But if I startle her from behind, she's going to kick. Not because she is being hateful. Because she is being a horse. A horse gets startled from behind, they kick. That is exactly my point. My horse loves me, but I better not startle her from behind--because she can't be malicious or not malicious. She can only be a horse.
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post #103 of 123 Old 06-29-2011, 04:39 AM
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Love is a human emotion (and it stems, actually, from hormones like oxytocin, and the need to pair-mate and reproduce!). To say a horse can "love" is anthropomorphizing at its finest!
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post #104 of 123 Old 06-29-2011, 04:40 AM Thread Starter
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Well, not if you say it's chemical. Animals do have oxytocin. In fact, it is the basis of how feral children can latch onto nursing animals, another favorite topic of mine.
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post #105 of 123 Old 06-29-2011, 04:41 AM Thread Starter
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And Bubba, I can almost go with you...except for those higher complex thoughts. I am married. Supposed I get an oxytocin surge from a pretty little gal down at the barn. I can override that. Make a moral decision. An animal can not.
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post #106 of 123 Old 06-29-2011, 04:41 AM
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I do believe horses can plan things, maybe not months in advance but there is a short time span prior to what ever act they commit that in some cases they have thought about it and therefore do rudimentary plan. A pony at my old yard had a trick of refusing to lift her back hooves until some poor kid moved to an angle where she slam out a cow kick straight into a knee. There may not have been excessive planning but I believe there was some even if it was just "move to the left, got you". To me that is a habit that becomes dangerous. Even if the animal just goes in its head, "duhhh that side looks nice, I go over there now," that is still rudimentary planning. The start of higher thinking. I also remember a story about a thoroughbred stallion (Halo?) that would attack and drown birds. I think there may have been some basic planning in there for him to do that. It just may not be planning as we think of it.

Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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post #107 of 123 Old 06-29-2011, 04:42 AM
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I see an utterly terrified horse who is desperatly trying to comply but not being given the option, a "trainer" who is a bully and what amount to horse ABUSE in that video. It is called Flooding and is a barbaric method of essentialy overwhelming a horse to the point that it shuts down as it has no other option.
I don't see submission from that horse, I see pain, fear and confusion. A horse will only wet itself in fear or pain, never in submission and normaly a horse wetting itself is something they do when they think they are going to die. It is a natural response to fear, they empty the bladder so that they can run faster as they are not carrying the weight of a full bladder. It is rare even in wild Zebras. It does not release anxiety, if anything it increases the flight response.

If the horse where truely aggressive then it wouldnt be searching for treats at 00:30-00:36. Having delt with truely agresssive horses an agressive horse would have been having a go at him through the bars. I've had a horse come over a stable door, pick a girl up by the ear and throw them accross the yard (unfortunatly minus thier ear). We had the horse shot the next day.

Reeco was a badly handled horse, you could not get a line anywhere near his back end, he freaked (bad handling in his past caused massive amounts of fear), he has come right and can now be longreined on a figure of 8 with no issues, including having a line up his backside. I can pull his tail no issues and he will let me put a passoa on him too. How did I do this? well it certainly wasnt by flooding. It was by working calmly, consistantly, with a firm hand and over the period of 6 weeks.

The video did make me laugh though, the guy is so clearly incompetant it is unreal. Getting tangled in your lines happens occassionaly but it is a rare thing normaly after a horse has done something unexpected and you've had to scramble to keep up and stay in control, it should not happen nearly every time you take a step.

If you are the voice of the horse then you are a p*ss poor effort. It is very obvious that you don't have the neuroscience degree otherwise you would know that what you posted was NOT a scientificly acceptable form of proof. it is mearly an abstract which without the rest of the paper is as useless as a chocolate teapot! Also scientific fact when it comes to biology and medicine is rarely concrete and is often disprooven very quickly.
We have very little understanding of the brain itself. Yes we have labeled parts, can tell what they do in a normal brain, sometimes in a not so normal brain, but we cannot explain everything. What makes us alive? what gives us sentience? when a portion of the brain is damaged sometimes the entire brain rewires itself, what causes this and how it does so we still have very little understanding of.

It is plainly obvious that you are a NED (or a CHAV). A clear cut case of "all the gear, no idea" and "A little knowlege is very dangerous, far more dangerous then non".

Please please go away. I saw your "I'm leaving" post and was glad you were going as is may save a few lives. So please dissapear, you are not wanted here!

RIDE your horse FORWARDS and keep him STRAIGHT

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post #108 of 123 Old 06-29-2011, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJ46 View Post
And Bubba, I can almost go with you...except for those higher complex thoughts. I am married. Supposed I get an oxytocin surge from a pretty little gal down at the barn. I can override that. Make a moral decision. An animal can not.
No, the oxytocin is what keeps you bonded to your wife. It's a pair-survival hormone.

The serotonin and dopamine will draw you to the pretty little gal...the oxytocin (and the fear of what would happen should your wife find out--self-preservation) it's what prevents the rendezvous. Presumably.
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post #109 of 123 Old 06-29-2011, 04:49 AM Thread Starter
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Ha! You may have something, Bubba. What chemical makes me afraid of divorce lawyers? (You know a bit of your neurochemistry yourself.)
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post #110 of 123 Old 06-29-2011, 04:49 AM
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Do me a favor and read faye's post minus the two closing paragraphs. I'm going to do MYSELF a favor and go to bed...here in a minute. :roll:
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