Professionals demonstrating my "Opinion"--watch these vids - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 123 Old 06-28-2011, 10:01 PM
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In the first video (I didn't see part where horse moves toward woman), he uses the lariat on the horse's butt because he is trying to help the horse go "through" the anxiety and learn that he can do it and survive. So, yes, he is kind of provoking the horse but he wants the horse to learn that a rope over it, even around it's butt, is acceptable and surviveable. Also, he wants the horse to be able to do this while walking. Notice that the horse tolerates it at first, but he is "frozen", he is putting up with it, but as soon as he starts walking, he cannot hold it in any more and out comes the anxiety and the reaction. The trainer wants the horse to be able to experience anxiety and know that he MAY walk forward and it will be allright.

If you only stay in the place where the horse is never exposed to anxiety producing stiumlae, horse may be fine, but when that day comes when he meets something over that level, he will not know how to just walk through it, he will explode.
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post #22 of 123 Old 06-28-2011, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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post #23 of 123 Old 06-28-2011, 10:10 PM
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There's a certain je ne sais quoi about claiming to have worked with a horse on the whole "anxiety issue" with the rope and still getting such a strong response that the horse pees itself. Insanity is doing something over and over again, and expecting a different result. He states in the video that he's been doing the lariat thing for a while - and it's obviously not working if the horse is still reacting in such a way. The horse offers very, very few signs of relaxation throughout the entire video. The one spot I saw where he actually relaxed was when the trainer scratched his shoulder, and he dropped his head a bit. The muscles on the underside of his neck are overdeveloped from the horse holding its head up, instead of relaxing downwards.
The horse is anxious and tense, absolutely. But I greatly dislike the approach that person is taking towards fixing the problem.

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post #24 of 123 Old 06-28-2011, 10:14 PM
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There are many ways to fix this type of problem or any problem for that matter. Saying that this in the best or only way show lack of under standing and working with the needs of the horse as an individual.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
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post #25 of 123 Old 06-28-2011, 10:16 PM
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In regards to your scholorly paper (which is just an abstract):

Fear induced aggression is one type of aggression. There are many 'types' of aggression including dominance based aggression, sexual aggression, etc. I do agree that counter conditioning and desensitizing a horse to fearful stimuli are productive. However it does not prove your argument that all horses can be trained out of all bad habits. I'm assuming that's what your hypothesis is here.

As far as the videos, I see a tense, agitated horse and a 'trainer' who isn't quite reading his horse the best he could. (my sound isn't working, so can't hear any commentary)

Last edited by Spastic_Dove; 06-28-2011 at 10:19 PM.
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post #26 of 123 Old 06-28-2011, 10:17 PM
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Are you talking about this? This is merely an abstract, with no annotations, references, or actual writing in depth.
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post #27 of 123 Old 06-28-2011, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Spastic...READ! I said not all horses can be fixed! I have never said that. Good that you learned something by some good reading, though. It's most than most people here will do.
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post #28 of 123 Old 06-28-2011, 10:19 PM
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I agree with NHRA, and I don't think anyone disagrees that there are ways to fix a lot of dominate behaviors that are natural to horses.

What I personally believe is that there is no one way, nor that any horse can be 'fixed' by any person. I certainly don't have the skills, knowledge or experience to 'cure' a horse of, say, rearing under saddle.

Does that make me a bad person or someone who doesn't love their horses? I don't think so. I just recognize my limitations.

And if I could not afford to get the best professional help possible, then heck yeah I'd sell my horse!

I don't really understand what you think, DS, we don't understand.
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post #29 of 123 Old 06-28-2011, 10:19 PM
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I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought the horse was confused in the 1st video.
If he is trying to desensitize the horse to the rope, why doesn't he remove it when the horse is standing or moving with it on him quietly. Also, the dog thing really bothers me. He looked like he was trying to herd the horse. If this horse was truelly aggressive he would nailed that dog 1st chance he got.
The second video was ok, but 1/2 the time the horse didn't look like he was listening and watching the lady. He was very distracted.
The 3rd video I saw a horse at the beginning that was acting aggressive, at the end of the video he seemed better, and was rewarded for the behavior. (but there seemed to be no time lapse)
I agree that most horses can be worked out of their problems with time and patience, but I don't think these really proves the point.

So in lies the madness, the pursuit of the impossible in the face of the complete assurance that you will fail, and yet still you chase.
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post #30 of 123 Old 06-28-2011, 10:20 PM Thread Starter
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Oneslick...if you take the trouble, you can get at the paper...geez...
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