A Question For English Riders - Back Up?
   

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A Question For English Riders - Back Up?

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  • English riders i have a question
  • English riding how to back up

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    07-07-2010, 02:04 AM
  #1
Trained
A Question For English Riders - Back Up?

So I notice that when my trainer dies a fun show between her students (Which happened to be today) and I compet English instead of western, I get some nasty looks when I back up fast. Like, I had Jester out there today and he flat out runs backwards. I was English and I loped a few circles, stopped and made him back up the standard distance for a Reiner. I know it was an English show, but that doesn't make much differance to me. Doesn't mean I can't practice.

I actually had someone come up with her gelding next to me and ask rather rudely why I woul make my horse back up like that. I told them he was a Reiner and they just looked at me like I was abusing him or something. I was doing some fun dressage classes and there was a rein back I had to do so when I asked for the rein back he ran backwards.... Web I got out of the arena I had another rider approach me again and ask me about it....She told me that he wasn't a car and shouldn't be made back up like that.

I mean, seriously. My trainer is primarily western. It's not like these people have never seen a horse back up before.

Someone told me that English riders use backing up as a punishment, or that they aren't traine to back up at all.

Elaboration would be nice ;)
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    07-07-2010, 02:17 AM
  #2
Yearling
I've never ever been told backing up is a punishment. I could use any movement any gait as a punishment on a horse by simply making them do something they want to do. Backing up is a useful skill which every horse should have. Heck, even in our dressage tests now in Australia we have a rein back. Of course, it isn't meant to be like a reiner's, more of a smooth back up without resistance.

Personally, I wouldn't listen to anyone who didn't train their horses to back up.
     
    07-07-2010, 02:20 AM
  #3
Yearling
It makes no sense that they'd say that!

I have made every horse I've ridden back up. In the show I am going to, I am REQUIRED to back my horse. It's only 2-3 steps, but it's still backing. Of course, I ride gaited, but it's like that for the straight-gaited horses, too.
     
    07-07-2010, 02:59 AM
  #4
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by SorrelHorse    
Someone told me that English riders use backing up as a punishment, or that they aren't traine to back up at all.

Elaboration would be nice ;)
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That's nonsense, since reinback appears in both British Dressage and British Driving Society dressage tests!
     
    07-07-2010, 03:36 AM
  #5
Trained
Okay, so it must just be a few ignorant people. Thanks for the elaboration guys.....Was a little confused. O.o
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    07-07-2010, 07:48 AM
  #6
Green Broke
Backing up is the worst punshiment ever. It will eventually led to rearing.
But backing up is a good thing to know I always like to have a little backing up in a ride only a few steps ans slowly lol it was probably because you did it at speed
     
    07-07-2010, 08:11 AM
  #7
Started
Every horse needs to know how to back up. I wasn't taught that it was punishment of any kind. I was taught it could be used a correction for a failed whoa. I ride english and when Sampson or Caleigh don't whoa when I want it I back them to where I said Whoa, have them stand for a second or two and then walk on. It's gentle and normally 3-5 steps back. It's not fast at all like your reiner, partly...erm...mostly because my giants backing up fast would probably be disastrous.
In play days I've gone to I've been told to back up a few steps and very gentle massaging the reins type of backing. Normally the judge asks at line up for a few steps back. Backing up isn't a punishment, it's a skill needed and if used as anything else possibly a light correction.

A couple personal examples if you're interested at all.
If Sampson walks out over my shoulder I stop and back him up a few steps to where he should be, it's a learning process for him...you walk with me not in front of me.
It also helps a horse work under itself in some situations. If Caleigh is stepping out too far and tripping over herself I know I need to re-adjust myself and in that process I back her up a few steps and start over. It seems to remind her where the rest of her body is and she feels a bit more together when we start up again.


Hope that helped.
I wonder why those people were so "offended"?
     
    07-07-2010, 08:18 AM
  #8
Yearling
To me, backing up is a very important thing to know. Say for instance when opening and closing a gate while mounted. Unless you are up for alot of turning around and around or risk getting off your horse while on an outride (like near roads) and he may run away or freak out.

Also, as meantioned by the others, backing up is used in some competitions. So those people who confronted you about backing up are talking nonsense.
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    07-07-2010, 08:20 AM
  #9
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTree    
Backing up is the worst punshiment ever. It will eventually led to rearing.
But backing up is a good thing to know I always like to have a little backing up in a ride only a few steps ans slowly lol it was probably because you did it at speed

Sorry Redtree, I have to disagree. First, there are MANY worse "punishments" than asking a horse to back up. I would also say that any well trained horse should be able to back up some. How much, how fast, etc, depends upon the discipline. Trail classes often have horses backing up while turning through an obstacle, English riders typically have to back up 3 steps at the end of a class, command classes usually ask for back up, Western pleasure also asks for it and the ultimate is the reiners-they are taught to back up at lightening speed. Just how they are trained and part of how they are judged. If done correctly, in the vast majority of horses it will not cause rearing. In fact, I have never seen that happen. You just have to know how to train them. Certainly, if you pull up rather than back they may be more apt to rear. But to say that backing causes rearing is just plain wrong!

OP-in my experience, in English classes the horses typically are asked to back 3 steps slowly. As a reiner you back fast. They are jealous! Haha!
     
    07-07-2010, 09:42 AM
  #10
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by SorrelHorse    
So I notice that when my trainer dies a fun show between her students (Which happened to be today) and I compet English instead of western, I get some nasty looks when I back up fast. Like, I had Jester out there today and he flat out runs backwards. I was English and I loped a few circles, stopped and made him back up the standard distance for a Reiner. I know it was an English show, but that doesn't make much differance to me. Doesn't mean I can't practice.
What they are referring to is the speed of the back up. In English you back up in a measured deliberate manner...never as a running step.

Quote:
I actually had someone come up with her gelding next to me and ask rather rudely why I woul make my horse back up like that. I told them he was a Reiner and they just looked at me like I was abusing him or something. I was doing some fun dressage classes and there was a rein back I had to do so when I asked for the rein back he ran backwards.... Web I got out of the arena I had another rider approach me again and ask me about it....She told me that he wasn't a car and shouldn't be made back up like that.
Fully agree with what the person said about the car analogy. The problem with the perception of a horse running backward is that it may appear that the horse is backing away from the bit and the assumption is then that the rider is being harsh with the bit making the horse run backward instead of deliberately backing.

Quote:
I mean, seriously. My trainer is primarily western. It's not like these people have never seen a horse back up before.
Just as in western pleasure and HUS done with the same judges and both classes looking virtually the same is something we should no be doing, we should not just because your trainer is western, ride all classes (even the English ones) in the same manner. There are specific requirements for each discipline and you can't jog or lope in dressage just as you can't be doing passage in western. So you can't do a running back up in a dressage or any English class.

Quote:
Someone told me that English riders use backing up as a punishment, or that they aren't traine to back up at all.

Elaboration would be nice ;)
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There are some very ignorant riders that will use a back up as punishment but the good ones will use it to reset the horse's mind as a correction ( never more than a few steps though). Other will use it to strengthen the hind quarters and set the horse more on the rear legs to set them up for something that will be asked for.

There are various other reasons but punishment is not what a god rider will use the back up for.
     

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