Really cool article on balance and collection - Page 3
   

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Really cool article on balance and collection

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  • Pia munck over the back
  • Pia munck method of training horses

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    12-21-2013, 07:14 PM
  #21
Super Moderator
It's mumbo jumbo because it's a lot of words that never really say anything. There's no science or riders backing it up. It just creates a bunch of armchair enthusiasts behind their keyboards complaining about upper level dressage because an anonymous person once posted a picture of Anky in a moment of time and the horse was BTV and now she's evil and does Rolkur despite the fact she has, and has had, many horses competing well and happily into their late teens in FEI level dressage. And because "Bob's Dressage Page" on the internet is the end all be all for everything Dressage and Anky can't possibly know a single thing about horse training - she is abusive and MEAN!!

I think folks need to read more about the training of the horse and learn to recognize what THE HORSE thinks of as correct. Those of you not familiar with Pia Munck should read some of her internet rantings too. While occasionally extreme, it is good to have both sides of the argument. And she is always fighting for the good of the horse. A hollow frame with back dropped but nose ITV is not correct either and has actually been shown to be more detrimental to the horse than RK and BTV/LDR. Once people are familiar with the training of the horse, by reading literature, THEN to get on the horse and get good instruction based on this literature is how folks should get acquainted with what is correct and incorrect in the saddle, from the view of the horse. Not by reading "Bob's Dressage Page" and www.RolkurIsEvil.net. Go to the classics, go to the masters.[/quote]


Did that original article say one word about Anky or try to raise the pitchfork waving masses to shout and protest her evilness? And I missed the link to "Bob's dressage page".
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    12-22-2013, 12:23 PM
  #22
Super Moderator
[QUOTE=bsms;4354170 let me be quite clear on one point, there is absolutely no way an [B]experienced[/B] rider will ruin a horse using hyperflexion..."

That would depend entirely on what someone's concept of hyperflexion was, how long a period they were working the horse in that frame and if the horse was sufficiently physically prepared for it
There are also a lot of people who believe they are experienced enough to work their horses like this and in truth aren't - a lot of them wouldn't know a really fit horse if it hit them in the face because they've never sat on one.
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    12-22-2013, 01:24 PM
  #23
Weanling
quote:... The thrusting energy of the hind legs can be broken into 2 vectors, one vertical and one horizontal. The greater percentage devoted the the vertical, the less is available to the horizontal. But it cannot stop somewhere in the neck. Once created, it either lifts weight or moves the horse forward. Holding the head at an artificial spot may do a number of bad things, but it does not cause energy to dissipate...where? Through the pores of the skin?

The energy, as I feel it when riding, becomes a tenseness, sort of an isometric clinching of muscle against muscle, not forward or up---I don't know exactly what going on, but I do know that when the energy "goes through" it's an entirely different feel, sort of liquidy.

But you know, everything is "mumbo jumbo" when you don't understand it. I'm always being confronted by mumbo jumbo, there's plenty I have to learn, or have trouble understanding. Mumbo Jumbo shouldn't be ignored, it should be examined. . .
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    12-22-2013, 01:26 PM
  #24
Weanling
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    12-22-2013, 01:32 PM
  #25
Super Moderator
I would agree with anebel in that it is a lot of words, and you need to get out and ride to truly understand it. A rider wouldn't use that as an instruction manual. But for some riders, and non-riders, who are not sure what "collection" is, I think those diagrams are helpful to explain how collection is created (the shortening of the base of support concept) and how doing that by only pulling back on the front of the horse cannot work and done the way most riders do it, kind of "cripples" the horse's movement. I liked the description of how the rider's poor posture dampens the horse's movement, (the one who has the upper body falling over frontwards). I am sure that I am guilty of that. I am sure my mount works much harder to carry me than he would to carry a good rider.
     

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