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Responding to leg pressure(to turn) without speeding up respecting the bit?

2K views 13 replies 7 participants last post by  Santina 
#1 ·
Hi! My American Paint Horse mare is very leg sensitive and if you just touch her with your leg(s) she will go faster. She doesn't turn very nice though and resists the bit(she hates it and shakes her head whenever it's in her mouth/doesn't respond without yanking which i don't like doing) and i need leg pressure to help turn her the way i want her to go. But if i touch her with one of my legs she goes faster? How do i stop this and get her to listen to my leg pressure to turn her instead of having her speed up? And how do i help her like the bit and respect/listen to it more?
 
#2 ·
What bit are you using? When were her teeth last checked?

When you put leg pressure on to turn, where on her barrel are you putting your leg? When you apply pressure in the same place on the ground, what does she do?
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#5 ·
Some horses need their teeth done every year.

So, for the head tossing, I would start there.

As for the leg pressure issue, I'm not a ton of help there. My gelding responds better to leg pressure than he does to the bit, especially to turn, and always has, so I'm not sure how to fix an issue.
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#6 ·
Details with bit:
If i want to go one way that she doesn't want to go, she starts trotting/cantering
If i turn her the way i want to go sometimes she raises her head up and shakes her head a lot with the bridle
Doesn't like to turn on a dime which i need her to do if i want to barrel race her.


I will ask my father about getting her teeth checked.
 
#12 ·
Doesn't like to turn on a dime which i need her to do if i want to barrel race her.
You've got bigger fish to fry before even thinking about barrel racing.

Your mare may be 14, but I'll tell you that my 3-year-old is better broke than she is. It's all about training. And every time you are around your horse, you are "training" them whether you realize it or not.

doesn't respond without yanking which i don't like doing

.....

And how do i help her like the bit and respect/listen to it more?
So you yank on her mouth? Am I interpreting you correctly?

To get her softer to the bit, the first step is going to be NEVER to yank on her mouth. Only ask as firm as you need to get a response. And always start with a "feather light" cue, and increase as you go.


I put the pressure(to turn her) behind the cinch and to go faster, i put the pressure on the cinch.
Myself personally, this is not quite how I cue my horses.

If I want my horse to move from a stop to a walk, I ever so slightly lean my weight forward (basically an invisible cue) and I squeeze evenly with both legs at their "neutral" point where my legs naturally hang.

To go from a walk to a trot, I squeeze with both legs in the same manner but I add a "cluck" sound with my voice. That is how they know the difference between a stop-to-walk cue and a stop-to-trot cue.

To go into a lope from any starting speed (stop, walk, trot) I will slide my "outside" leg back about 4 inches and bump with my calf while giving a "kissing" sound with my voice. I don't do anything with my inside leg. My right leg is the cueing leg for the left lead and my left leg is the cueing leg for the right lead.

When I ask a horse to move their body in other ways, it depends on what I am wanting to do. If I want to move the horses shoulder, I move my leg forward about 4 inches. If I want to move the horse's ribcage, I apply my leg in the neutral postion. If I want to move their hindquarters, I apply my leg about 4 inches backward.

So if I want to do a pivot, I will move my leg forward to push their shoulders in the direction I want. If I want to do a turn on the fore, I will move my leg back to move their hindquarters.

If I am doing a barrel turn, I am going to use my inside leg to push the ribcage outward while using my outside leg to keep the hindquarters inward, and using my reins to keep the nose tipped inward.

This is why if you can't control your horse's body with leg cues, you aren't going to be able to effectively do the barrel pattern.


I agree with everyone else that you need to get this horse's teeth checked, first and foremost.

And then you also need to find a trainer to take some lessons with. If you aren't giving your leg cues or your rein cues with the proper timing, your horse only gets confused and tries to fight you. (as currently evident)

what should i do, if she goes faster should i keep placing the leg pressure on her or should i release it and pull her back down?
First of all, you need to master leg cues from a standstill. Teach your horse to sidepass, turn on the haunches, and turn on the fore. All while essentially standing still. If she tries to move forward or in a direction you don't want her, use your reins to steady her.

And this is why you need a trainer to help teach you timing. If you release your leg cue too soon, your horse learns she can ignore it. If you release it too late, she doesn't understand what the correct response was. We can't teach you timing on the internet. You need someone standing in front of you giving you instant feedback on your cues, to let you know if you released too fast, too slow, or just right.
 
#7 ·
Is this horse trained at all or is she green? How much experience do you have training horses? Do you have a trainer?

At this point, I'd be focused on getting my horse broke and being able to control every part of her body with a touch. If she's as green as you make her sound, I would go back to absolute basics on the ground with her and work back up from there.
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#8 ·
1, start with having her teeth checked and done if needed. Then, my best suggestion is that you find a trainer to work with both of you. Judging from what you've said, this mare has a lot of very big holes in her training.

Progress will only come if you are putting the right amount of pressure in the right spot and releasing it at the exact right moment. Something like that can't be taught over the internet. She sounds like a horse that, training wise, is barely green broke. No leg cues except for "go", fighting your hands and unresponsive, etc.
 
#9 ·
OP, I have hunch that you are releasing your leg pressure as soon as she goes faster and go to pulling her down slower with your hands. When doing so you are only rewarding her for going faster to the single leg and causing the mouth resistance to get worse.

Are you taking lessons or have someone to watch you ride?
 
#13 ·
...She doesn't turn very nice though and resists the bit(she hates it and shakes her head whenever it's in her mouth/doesn't respond without yanking which i don't like doing) and i need leg pressure to help turn her the way i want her to go...
It sounds to me like this is the root of the problem. If it isn't a pain issue, then it sounds like a training issue - will the horse yield to pressure from the bit in the proper way?

I'm not a trainer, instructor, competitor or anything else - just a backyard rider with a backyard horse. However, I'd start with getting the horse to give to pressure from the bit while working her from the ground. The horse you are describing sounds a lot like Mia when I finally turned her over to a professional trainer. The pro concluded that Mia had never been broken to ride. She based that on Mia's total lack of understanding about giving to pressure.

I watched the trainer teach her how to respond correctly to a bit, but I don't know how to describe it. If you don't have access to a trainer, then you might try these books for advice:

The Modern Horseman's Countdown to Broke: Real Do-It-Yourself Horse Training in 33 Comprehensive Steps: Sean Patrick, Dr. Robert M. Miller: 9781570764196: Amazon.com: Books

Ride Smart: Improve Your Horsemanship Skills on the Ground and in the Saddle (Western Horseman Books): Craig Cameron: 9780911647662: Amazon.com: Books

Both give some step by step ideas with pictures and how to know when you are ready for the next step. I'd work on good responses while standing next to her on the ground. When she gives to pressure while you are on the ground, try it on her back at a standstill. When that is going OK, try it at a walk. When she does well at a walk, try it at a trot. Unless she works well at a trot, don't canter or gallop.

I'm not a barrel racer but this sounds more fundamental than that. Good luck!
 
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