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Sfo frustrated... need advise

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        01-22-2012, 11:22 PM
      #21
    Weanling
    Sorry that last line should say, "I can't imagine owning a horse I feel NO connection to." There needs to be a connection first if there can ever be a bond later.

    Quote:
    But he doesn't respect me outside the pen and I am often on the verge of giving up and calling us hopeless
    I'm not a trainer but I do know that not respecting you outside of the pen = need more training. Is he really young? I'm sure it's frustrating for you.

    Horses can feel like bad little kids sometimes. And we all know that there were many times when we all were kids our moms loved us because they had to, not because we were just so lovable, lol.

    Yeah to me, a horse has to be one that respects me on the ground and under saddle and for the most part makes me happy. I can't see bonding to an animal that is a constant PITA. The good has to outweigh the bad.
         
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        01-22-2012, 11:37 PM
      #22
    Showing
    Heelsdown, I saw a lot of love in the Chris Norman video (the one you accidentally linked) and trust. I'd call that a bond, not just training. But the girl and her horse, it wasn't what I'd call a bond.

    I once saw this girl literally playing chase with her horse. She'd run at him and he'd jump and buck happily and come trotting up her to and sat down and rolled.. she came over and sat with this horse. They were so happy.

    I didn't see that level when I watched the girl and her horse.

    Some say I have a bond with my horse. I have no idea, all I know is that he picked me and I do care a lot for him. Lately he's being typical man though and prefers hanging with his crew but there are times he comes running up to the gate to beat me there, I catch him, and he follows me around without me asking. It's always been that way *shrug* does it mean we have a bond? Maybe. That or I smell like apples :P
         
        01-22-2012, 11:49 PM
      #23
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Heelsdown    

    I think a bond is when you see a horse that is not just obeying because they are told, but a horse that wants to please its owner, wants to spend time with its owner, wants to be with its owner over other horses.

    I agree! I think it's an emotional thing.

    Some people don't feel that bond with their horses so they don't really get it. A horse is something they ride. They have multiple horses that they buy and sell all the time. Or their horses are there to perform a job. That's cool. Nothing wrong with it.

    I don't relate to that. I have a friend like that, and it makes me sad for her horses. She feeds them and rides them. But I would LOVE them. I find it sad she doesn't love them as individuals.

    But to say "what is a bond" makes me think that if you have to ask, then you've never felt it. If you've bonded with a horse or any pet, you know what that bond is.

    Oh, I totally feel I bond with my horses. I guess I was just wondering about the nuances. Like is behaving well and doing tricks mean the horse and owner have a bond? Or is that just good training? That's what I meant by "what is a bond." To me it is more an emotional thing that what behaviors a horse actually does.

    Here is something I consider an example of a bond. Years ago I had an Arabian with an attitude and he was a fun horse, but I always felt that if I fell off he would run home and leave me for dead. He had done it a time or two before- gotten loose on a trail ride and ran home. So years go by and one time I am cantering him and dodge a tree limb and my saddle slides and I end up falling off. That horse should have run home and left me. He did it before under lesser circumstances. But that particular day as I lay on the ground trying to figure out if I was injured, he came back and stood by me. And stayed with me until I was able to get up, which took a minute or two because I was in pain. After that I felt like I had a bond with that horse. It ended up being a good experience for us.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Heelsdown    
    sorry that last line should say, "I can't imagine owning a horse I feel NO connection to." There needs to be a connection first if there can ever be a bond later.

    The only problem with that is that if a horse is 1/2 way safe and enjoyable, I love them all, lol! There are more horses that I would own than wouldn't.

    I'm not a trainer but I do know that not respecting you outside of the pen = need more training. Is he really young? I'm sure it's frustrating for you.

    Yes, he's only 18 months old. I plan to get some help in the spring when the mud dries out. We definitely need more training for both of us. He's my first foal (I've had him since birth).

    Yeah to me, a horse has to be one that respects me on the ground and under saddle and for the most part makes me happy. I can't see bonding to an animal that is a constant PITA. The good has to outweigh the bad.
    I agree!
         
        01-23-2012, 12:11 AM
      #24
    Weanling
    Skys, I probably should have found a better video with the Icelandic. This girl has tons of videos on youtube and I've seen them all. Once you've watched all of her videos (and there are a lot!) you do see the bond.
    I can see how that one video doesn't really show it.
    Another person I think has a beautiful bond with her horse is dressage rider Jolaanda Adelaar and her horse Guus. I've been watching her videos for years and boy does she love her boy and I truly believe he loves her.

    Trailhorserider, I don't think there can be a bond with an 18 month old. They are so cute but such potato heads at that age that just holding their attention and getting them to listen is a job in itself!

    That is beautiful that your arab stayed with you like that. I know there are a lot of things that horses do that we can't take personally. They share some emotions that humans have but I think it's more of a two year old human. If a mother fell down, would her two year old stand by her or would he wander away because he saw something shiny? It could go either way. Doesn't mean the child doesn't love her, but the mind of a two year old is different.

    I think animals are like that. Some just have better minds, are more intuitive and just in such tune with their owner. My aunt said when she rides, it's almost telepathic how her horse knows where she wants her to go. They've been riding partners for so many years and she's the only person who rides her horse. So they are completely in tune when riding. And on the ground, that horse just adores her. She's almost a little too possessive I'd say. The horse will pace and paw if she sees my aunt talking to another person. My aunt always says, "I hope this horse outlives me because I don't know what I'll do if she dies first."
         
        01-23-2012, 12:23 AM
      #25
    Trained
    I think the amount of bond is directly proportional to the amount of time spent in each others company, learning from each other and building that trust that makes the training go easier. I'm working on building bonds with horses besides the old QH I had for 30 years. The bond I had with him was phenomenal and it didn't happen overnight. We spent hours in each other's company, grooming, bathing, trail riding, taking lessons & doing seminars and showing and just hanging out in pasture together. I could to ANYTHING to him and I could persuade him to try anything, but not the first 8 years I had him. During the 10th - 20th year we really clicked and everything came easy. Then the 20th - 30th years, it was as easy as it could be for an aging to old horse. I lost him in the 30th year and now, 4 years later, I'm still working on those bonds with other horses. I love them and we have a good time together, and I'm raising them from birth so it's even easier faster, but still, I expect to be working on those bonds and having good and bad days for 30 more years.
         
        01-23-2012, 12:27 AM
      #26
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Heelsdown    

    Trailhorserider, I don't think there can be a bond with an 18 month old. They are so cute but such potato heads at that age that just holding their attention and getting them to listen is a job in itself!

    You are probably right. I was talking to my vet the other day about the baby and he said the same thing- that it's natural for him to be distracted by his surroundings because he is so young and just keep working with him and give him time. And when I send him out for saddle training the trainer should be able to sort him out easily. So I hope he's right. I want my baby to work out. If I gave up on him I would always doubt myself thereafter. I love the little guy!

    If a mother fell down, would her two year old stand by her or would he wander away because he saw something shiny? It could go either way. Doesn't mean the child doesn't love her, but the mind of a two year old is different.
    I think that is a great way of looking at it. Very wise of you and probably very accurate. Some things are just outside their realm of understanding, but it doesn't mean they don't love you. I can see animals as thinking in the same manner.
         
        01-23-2012, 12:31 AM
      #27
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians    
    I think the amount of bond is directly proportional to the amount of time spent in each others company, learning from each other and building that trust that makes the training go easier. I'm working on building bonds with horses besides the old QH I had for 30 years. The bond I had with him was phenomenal and it didn't happen overnight. We spent hours in each other's company, grooming, bathing, trail riding, taking lessons & doing seminars and showing and just hanging out in pasture together. I could to ANYTHING to him and I could persuade him to try anything, but not the first 8 years I had him. During the 10th - 20th year we really clicked and everything came easy. Then the 20th - 30th years, it was as easy as it could be for an aging to old horse. I lost him in the 30th year and now, 4 years later, I'm still working on those bonds with other horses. I love them and we have a good time together, and I'm raising them from birth so it's even easier faster, but still, I expect to be working on those bonds and having good and bad days for 30 more years.
    Yup, I agree! That seems to work with everyone but the youngster.

    My Mustang was very work-man-like when I got him. After many years he is a cuddle muffin and we have a super-trusting relationship. I even trust his judgement out on the trails, about which way to turn or whether or not a trail obstacle is safe. He's not the kind of horse to take advantage. So if he says he doesn't want to do something, I really pay attention.

    He takes his job as trail horse very seriously!

    My Fox Trotter, well, we've really only had one summer riding together (because she was pregnant before that) but that one summer has really helped us gain confidence and trust in each other. There's lots of room for improvement, but I feel we are on our way for mutual trust and understanding.
         
        01-23-2012, 01:06 PM
      #28
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Heelsdown, I saw a lot of love in the Chris Norman video (the one you accidentally linked) and trust
    sorry I forgot to address, I don't know why the video says Chris Norman. Maybe that is the person that put it together. But it is the video I wanted to link. It features Jean Francois-Pignon who is AH-MAZE-ING with his horses. He has a few youtube videos.
    It's one thing to make a horse run around a round pen while a person holds a crop. Try making multiple horses listen like that, no crop or whip, and in an open area like the beach! IMO, a horse needs to truly trust you and have that desire to please you in an environment like that.
    I love the end of the video when you can see the look of contentment on the horses' faces as they lay on the beach with their "head stallion". I read he only uses mares. Don't know if that's true but it would make sense because they do follow him like he is the head stallion.

    I love that guy. He's cute too! Great smile. :)
         
        01-23-2012, 01:39 PM
      #29
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Heelsdown    
    sorry I forgot to address, I don't know why the video says Chris Norman. Maybe that is the person that put it together. But it is the video I wanted to link. It features Jean Francois-Pignon who is AH-MAZE-ING with his horses. He has a few youtube videos.
    It's one thing to make a horse run around a round pen while a person holds a crop. Try making multiple horses listen like that, no crop or whip, and in an open area like the beach! IMO, a horse needs to truly trust you and have that desire to please you in an environment like that.
    I love the end of the video when you can see the look of contentment on the horses' faces as they lay on the beach with their "head stallion". I read he only uses mares. Don't know if that's true but it would make sense because they do follow him like he is the head stallion.

    I love that guy. He's cute too! Great smile. :)
    Yeah it's incredible to watch, especially him galloping bareback! He was just laughing and the horse looked so happy! I want to do that with my boy someday
         

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