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Stallions... what's the big deal?

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        08-09-2008, 04:47 PM
      #31
    Banned
    So just how many stallion owners DO we even have on this site?
         
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        08-09-2008, 04:51 PM
      #32
    Green Broke
    Ok ill put in my 2 cents.....

    MOST stallions need to be in experienced hands, they CAN be dangerous and over powering. But then there are stallions that are just as calm as geldings and mares. You cannot predict "ooh this colt over here is calm so that means he'll be calm when he's a 4 year old stally" you just cannot do that. Stallys are so much work. Some are calm as can be and others are very dangerous. I would love to own a stallion if there wasn't so much liability and if I could handle one...heck some geldings are hard to handle. Stallys want to BREED BREED BREED!!! And because of that they can become dangerous and kill horses and even people! I have nothing against them, there beautiful. But honestly unless you know what your doing you have no business owning one.
         
        08-09-2008, 05:22 PM
      #33
    Weanling
    "stallys want to BREED BREED BREED!!! And because of that they can become dangerous and kill horses and even people!"

    Ehem...

    Winning Colors (the horse I wanted to buy) was a stallion. And one of the CALM mares at my stable killed him. And yet... you'd say it was the stallion's fault, and not the mare's. And you'd say perhaps he was trying to do something, when it was the mare who made the first attack.
         
        08-09-2008, 06:19 PM
      #34
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FutureVetGirl
    "stallys want to BREED BREED BREED!!! And because of that they can become dangerous and kill horses and even people!"

    Ehem...

    Winning Colors (the horse I wanted to buy) was a stallion. And one of the CALM mares at my stable killed him. And yet... you'd say it was the stallion's fault, and not the mare's. And you'd say perhaps he was trying to do something, when it was the mare who made the first attack.

    Ok....well I wouldnt "say it was the stallion's fault" first off....i know SOME stallys are calm but most of them ARE NOT. That's what I don't think your honestly getting. I don't think you understand that stallions CAN be dangerous. Just because the horse you wanted to buy was killed by a mare doesnt mean anything. Yes it was a misfortune. RIP...but honestly your not opening your eyes to see the picture. And why on earth was the stallion in the same field as the mare? Unless they were trying to breed the mare I honestly think they could have saved his life. But that's besides the point. Most of the stallions just want to breed. Once again I will state this...unless you know what your doing, don't get a stallion. Period.
         
        08-09-2008, 08:15 PM
      #35
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FutureVetGirl
    Look. I get what you're saying, but I completely disagree. A stallion is still a horse. I'm not saying that you should throw a stallion into anyone's hands. But they're not just for the "pros" as you put it.
    When I say "pros" I mean people with advanced horse knowledge. That should be a prerequisite for all potential stallion owners - to pass a test.

    Not every stallion has a zillion hormones buzzing around. Some do, I'll give you that, but not all.
    Actually, they ALL have testosterone buzzing around, just in different levels. Some stallions have higher testosterone levels, making him more apt to act "studdy." (Aggressively).

    The stallions that I've ridden were NOT trained by professionals, they were NOT trained to be amazing competitors, and they were NOT bred from extremely calm lines. In fact, quite the opposite. And still... I found no difference in them from a mare or a gelding.
    Thing is, you say this and someone who is less knowledgable goes and buys a stallion because they're "no different than a mare or gelding" and they get hurt. Why? Because they ARE different to handle.
    Another question - why have a stallion that isn't a competitor, and doing well? In my honest opinion, any stallion not worthy of being called a "stallion" (bad conformation, lineage, not preforming) should be gelded. Geldings ARE safer. Of course there will be the odd few that are the exception to the rule, but it is a generalization BECAUSE THERE'S SOME MERIT TO IT.So unless a stallion is worth of its balls, whack 'em.


    A horse is a horse. A dog is a dog.

    By saying that a rottweiler or a pit bull needs to be watched after more and is more unpredictable than say a chihuahua or a papillion or a retriever, it's just plain bigotry, and just plain stupid. Just because an animal has a history of doing something doesn't mean it'll fall into the same pattern.
    I took this as highly offensive, I hope you know. Rotties have a stigma that goes with their breed for GOOD reason. They're big, powerful dogs that were used as guard dogs, and BRED to attack. This means they pick and chose which stud bred with which bitch - they selectively chose ill-tempered parents to make "meaner" babies - and anyone knows that genes play a role in how the offspring turn out. And tests have shown that you CAN breed for a certain personality trait. Rottweilers are a good example, and obviously earned their reputation for a reason.
    Are all Rotties mean-tempered? NO, No and NO!!!!! My Rottie is a complete suck, but I know that she has the potential to hurt something, so I have to keep an eye on her training so she doesn't. Is she mean? NO! But she is the dominant type that will pin another dog to show that (her breeding coming out) - and that's when people freak out, because a Rottie did it. If it was a retriever, they wouldn't think twice, and laugh it off.
    SAME GOES FOR STALLIONS. If a stallion kicks or bucks or bites, people are going to be more worried than if it was a mare or gelding. Again, for good reason!! Stallions have the capacity and sometimes the mentality to kill. Why? Because it's in their blood to protect their mares, and if they see a threat to their mares, they will stop at nothing short of severe injury or death to protect his band.
    *This is why, when you see any type of horse fighting, they use stallions... usually with a mare in the ring as well, to make the stallions fight over her. And good God, do they ever FIGHT! More times than not, both come out of it severely injured, even the victor. The loser is often crippled.
    You don't see gelding fights, or mare fights... at least not commonly - this is because the instinct to protect is the most in stallions.


    Now, you say that I can't talk this way, but if people believe that we come from Evolution, and we're animals, I have every right:
    Doesn't matter - we've evolved to be higher-thinking beings than horses, you CANNOT compare humans and horses. And every species is different, with different instincts.

    If you came from a background that was full of cruel slave drivers, and you have the abusive "gene" in you, yet, you were raised by kind, loving parents, would you still be abusive and cruel? No. And you'd call it bigotry if someone held the crimes of your forefathers against you.
    Actually, you just might. Ever heard the "nature versus nurture" debate? A LOT of behaviors come from the genes (nature) and a LOT come from the raising, or nurture part. You CANNOT SAY that it is DEFINITELY, 100% sure that it's not due to the genes.
    This is my time in university studying Psych coming out - go read some studies made by reputable people - GENETICS PLAY A ROLE IN A PERSON'S PERSONALITY.


    I've had pit bulls. And let me tell you something FLAT OUT. Pit bulls always were, and always will be the kindest and most gentle dog in the world. That is your opinion, not mine. You can't make a blanket statement like that and expect it to stand up in an argument. That's like saying "all people are kind." No, they're not.The problem is always the handler. Most people say that Retrievers are the most loyal and gentle dogs ever, I scough. Even in a good home, they tend to be a bit rowdy, and in bad homes, they can sometimes be worse than pits or rotties.
    Again, "nature versus nurture." Scientists believe that each plays a role, so it is NOT ALL in the handling, a lot of a behavior comes from the genetic code in the animal, or a predisposition.

    And I've worked with stallions. Don't call me ignorant, don't call me stupid, and don't say I don't know what I'm talking about. No. I don't believe that any little girl should have a testosterone high stallion in their backyard. So PLEASE stop acting like that's what I'm saying.
    Please give me a reason to not say it. What I'm saying is that many people make the ASSUMPTION (yes... I say ASSUMPTION) that stallions are walking ten miles high on testosterone and hormones. And that's false.Actually.... hormones are what drive us - they're what make us hungry and sleepy and feel good... and feel horny. Each hormone makes us feel that we need to act in a certain way - we need to eat, and sleep, and be happy... and have sex in order to procreate. I can assure you that my boyfriend wants sex more than I do... I can imagine that that's the testosterone levels talking.... stallions have higher levels of testosterone.... Hormones only truly act up when a mare is in heat. FALSE. I have seen many a stallion mount geldings, actually. Breeding impulse!! And most stallions (unless they're untrained and unsocialized) will do little more than prick up their ears ad maybe get a bit sidetracked from what they are doing.And if that "sidetracked" mind isn't corrected to be back on its job, then what?

    And may I ask how many stallions you have handled? Be honest!! Don't lie just to make a point.


    I've seen stallions in bad hands. It can be nasty. But every single one of those stallions (without being gelded) with just a little TLC, and some training, has become a wonderful, kind, and gentle horse for (yes) anyone.
    There you go again with the blanket statements... No, there is more in play than just a strange mind. Hormones are POWERFUL. They are astoundingly powerful! And not all stallions can ignore that impulse!
    To be quite honest, a lot of stallion owners shouldn't own stallions, they just like to say "well today my stallion...."
    Most boarding facilities won't take on a stallion because of these above well-known facts.

    I stand by my proclomation that anyone who says that a stallion is no different than a mare or gelding is ignorant.
    Please please please anyone who thinks this - please go take a genetics course and a few psych courses, it will help you understand where I'm coming from!!!

    Yes, I am fed up with this thread, and no, I won't back down on my opinion. I believe that this kind of misinformation can lead to someone getting hurt because they thought a stallion was just like a gelding.
         
        08-10-2008, 12:35 AM
      #36
    Chat Moderator
    Some clinicians won't let you bring a stud, becuase if something does go wrong, they feel he would be more dangerous. Such as , two studs get to get, a mare is in heat, or even the stallion full of testosterone would be are harder to control. They don't want the libitry that a stalion would bring. I rider could lie or doesn't, how that stud would act in that sinero. But, the clinician or for that matter owner of the stable would be at failt. Yes I know I'm repeating most of this.
    The owner of some breeds of dog take or should extra precaution because of what their dog can do. I generally kept my German Shepherd on a logging chain chained to a fair sized tree. Stallion owner mostly likely would do something similar.
    I showed calves in 4H as a kid, we were told in no unclear terms No bulls, for the same reasons.
         
        08-10-2008, 02:52 AM
      #37
    Weanling
    I understand what you're saying, but no, I still don't agree.

    You wanted to know how many stallions I've handled. In my old barn, about five or six. In my new barn, twenty. They usually dont' tend to geld their horses here, but the stallions really aren't any worse than the ones they do geld. And from what I know, the ones they geld are the complete nutty out of control stallions, which I have to agree with.

    And the thing with the mare, they weren't trying to breed her. They put stallions, geldings, and mares in the same paddock all the time, except when mares are in heat. You may say it's irresponsible, that we suffered the consequences with Winning Colors, but note something. It wasn't the stallions that killed him.

    In the wild, stallions aren't constantly mounting and breeding mares. You just don't see that. Sure, they do, after the mare has the foal, and it's around summer time, and tensions are all really high. But other then that, they're just protectors. Not sex-driven maniacs.

    I have nothing wrong with gelding. I have nothing wrong leaving a stallion to be a stallion.

    JustDressageIt, I'm not just giving you "blanket" information as you put it (though I'm not sure what you mean by that). And if you don't want to back down, that's your problem. Not mine.

    I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. And I still am not seeing how a stallion is "bad" and "evil" like you're making them out to be.

    A stallion is still a horse, beneath all the hormones. Once again, it seems like from what you're saying, that nobody should have stallions, unless that stallion is going to be bred, bred, bred. Which I think is completely stupid. I wouldn't get a MARE so it could be bred, bred, bred. So why should I geld a stallion just because I'm not completely into breeding him.

    I never said that a stallion is NO different. I just said that sometimes I can't TELL the difference. Please read my statements before assuming things. Yes, a stallion needs different care, yes, a stallion needs a knowledgable owner. But as long as the stallion's cared for, looked after, well-trained and socialized, I see nothing wrong with keeping it a stallion.

    I see where you're coming from, yet... you refuse to see where I'M coming from. Thanks.

    I'm not saying you have to back down, but instead of looking at a "stallion" as a sex-driven maniac, try seeing it as a horse. A horse that just might have a few extra hormones here and there. But a horse none-the-less.
         
        08-10-2008, 11:55 AM
      #38
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FutureVetGirl
    They put stallions, geldings, and mares in the same paddock all the time.
    why?
         
        08-10-2008, 02:02 PM
      #39
    Weanling
    This is not the United States. Here, people expect horses to be HORSES. And, knowing that except around certain times, stallions, gelding, and mares can generally all be in the same paddock/field together, they let horses out together.

    You're not helping your stallion by keeping him in a pen all by himself. Yes. That horse is looking over at the other horses. Yes, that stallion is going nuts. But think about it. Your dog would be going nuts if he/she was cooped up in a kennel while all the others would run around outside having a blast together.

    Explain to me why, up until recently (you can decide how long ago is recently) horses were all put in the same field together? Because they're horses, and they're PACK animals. Stallions won't mount a mare if they've been in the same field as that mare for a long time. When the stallions DO mount mares, that's when mares are in heat, and these stable owners know when those times are, and they seperate the mares. Not the stallions.
         
        08-10-2008, 02:38 PM
      #40
    Banned
    Actually FVG many farms will put young stallions in with non in heat mares. It tends to put a little "respect" on the young stud.

    A seasoned mare will not allow any tom foolery from some young uppity stud and will usually put them in their place.
         

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