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Western Dressage - Thoughts ?

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        11-26-2012, 11:34 AM
      #181
    Super Moderator
    Just to add - thanks for the pic Bluebird
    I love Martin Clunes - I just see him in Men Behaving Badly!!!
    He's president of the BHS now I understand and a great spokesman for them, I'm sure I read that he also owns a large horse - maybe a draft type?
         
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        11-26-2012, 11:45 AM
      #182
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jaydee    
    Maybe its easier for people like deserthorsewoman and I to see as we are 'older' and grew up in European countries where your first riding lesson (assumed its in a proper school) will be your first step into low level dressage because that's what the basic seat and aids/cues are - no long stirrups - that comes later if you decide to go that far and more focus is put on a posting trot than a sitting one. Most people will never go beyond that. They might remain pleasure riders, they may go into showing or they may get involved with competitive dressage but be happy to never go above the lower levels - in a lot of cases because the cost is prohibitive if you have other commitments and for others because they prefer to stay in their comfort zone.
    Some of the earliest evidence of horse riding is from the Mongolians who over ran China and so influenced them and their rule spread out into Persia and Mesopotamia so easy to see how that might have spread into the rest of Europe & Russia. Maybe we in fact owe our modern day riding to them. The modern day horse seems to have spread from there - and evolved so why not the riding style
    As for WD - Anything that encourages people to have lessons will improve them. Its amazing how many bad habits you pick up when you don't have someone watching you - a friend of mine (now a pleasure rider only) realised her horse seemed 'uneven' so called a chiropractor who pointed out over developed muscles on one side - a result of her sitting to one side - she hadnt even noticed she was doing it it had been such a gradual thing that got slowly worse
    In other cases WD may not make really good horses any better but it will be a place to 'show them off' - to have fun, to mix with other like minded horse people, do something different.
    At the risk of being repetitive - its a way for people who want to wear their western gear and tack and stick with their quarter horses, Morgans etc because its how they see the horse as a part of American history and want to hold on to that (and why not) but still challenge themselves & their horses doing similar tests to European dressage competitors
    They wont be competing against each other so comparisons in scoring that seems to upset some people seem a bit irrelevant
    hey, I'm old too! Am I in your gang? I can remember The Beetles before they were famous.
         
        11-26-2012, 11:52 AM
      #183
    Foal
    Oddly enough, I can't think of a single book on dressage or any of the top dressage coaches that don't spend most of the time on the basic work that is being dismissed as "before" dressage even when working with horses at the highest levels. The heart of dressage training is the slow, progressive training of the lower levels and the development of correct gaits and balance.

    Many many people in the western world see horses being thrown into very demanding work without any basic preparation of the back and suspensory systems. Class requirements are developed with a mature finished horse as the model, then young horses are expected to compete at the same level. Smart trainers discard any horse that might take time to prepare. Others try to force performance and ruin what could have been good horses. Some with good clients who will back them can wait and let a horse mature. Dressage testing is progressive testing at the lowest levels that allows the horse to be developed at the rate its bones, suspensory system and mind dictate and still compete. Having gaits and muscle development that are optimal for carrying a rider can't hurt. Thus Western Dressage as a competition.

    As for collected work, I remember old film clips of horses in the Rose Bowl Parade and being shown in California in the 60s. I knew one of the women who rode. Those horse moved and carried themselves in collected gaits with suspension. Before someone tells me they were not working ranch horses, the woman I knew was the niece of Ed Connell, who trained ranch horses his entire life.

    .
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        11-26-2012, 12:13 PM
      #184
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bluebird    
    hey, I'm old too! Am I in your gang? I can remember The Beetles before they were famous.
    You poor thing - you must be!!! The Rolling Stones once played in a little tiny place in our town, my friends sisters went to see them. My mother thought they were awful but she was a huge Beatles fan - loved Paul McCartney and her sister who now lives in Canada loved George Harrison and they used to argue who was best
    Sorry drifted off thread!!!!
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        11-26-2012, 12:38 PM
      #185
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jaydee    
    You poor thing - you must be!!! The Rolling Stones once played in a little tiny place in our town, my friends sisters went to see them. My mother thought they were awful but she was a huge Beatles fan - loved Paul McCartney and her sister who now lives in Canada loved George Harrison and they used to argue who was best
    Sorry drifted off thread!!!!
    Don't even get me started in that one, girls
    Okay, back to topic
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        11-26-2012, 01:41 PM
      #186
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jaydee    
    Just to add - thanks for the pic Bluebird
    I love Martin Clunes - I just see him in Men Behaving Badly!!!
    He's president of the BHS now I understand and a great spokesman for them, I'm sure I read that he also owns a large horse - maybe a draft type?
    Martin is a great guy! Never been with horses until he got married about 7 or 8 years ago. His wife and daughter are horse mad. He did a lovely programme about horses. Hope they show it in the USA. I think it was called Horsepower. He is now president of the BHS and his gorgeous horse is called Charlie. He likes Clydesdales and the photo is Danny Boy with Miss Virginia Osbourne, my Patrick's previous owner/trainer who broke her heart when she sold Patrick to me. We have remained very good friends. She is a really lovely lassie and Danny Boy is just a gorgeous Clydesdale!
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        11-26-2012, 02:11 PM
      #187
    Foal
    I'm still not seeing the training level horse as the all encompassing definition of what dressage means. Which is what I hear when people state that dressage is the basis of all riding. Yes, components of dressage exist in other disciplines. The whole of dressage, the immense amount of knowledge and skill required to be a knowledgable and good rider in dressage, is absent from all other disciplines.
    Posted via Mobile Device
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        11-26-2012, 02:38 PM
      #188
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by core    
    I'm still not seeing the training level horse as the all encompassing definition of what dressage means. Which is what I hear when people state that dressage is the basis of all riding. Yes, components of dressage exist in other disciplines. The whole of dressage, the immense amount of knowledge and skill required to be a knowledgable and good rider in dressage, is absent from all other disciplines.
    Posted via Mobile Device

    Again-there are other disciplines that require an immense amount of knowledge, skill, training, whatever-dressage does not have a corner on that market. I hate to break it to you. There are knowledgeable, skilled riders in MANY other disciplines, so it is not "absent from ALL other disciplines" as you state. Geez.
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        11-26-2012, 02:43 PM
      #189
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by deserthorsewoman    
    Maybe it's for creating a certain standard for teaching and judging. We all know there are no standards in western riding, every trainer does his/her own thing, gives aids a bit different etc.
    So, certain rules and methods are borrowed from "the old school" to teach and later on judge by.

    I think riders who have no intentions of showing traditional western events but still want to compete amongst each other showing off their well trained, happy, balanced horse can appreciate these set standards. How else could they be judged?
    Maybe, as I said before, the term Western Dressage is not the best, but I couldn't think of any other.
    But, as stated somewhere on this thread, it is for horses who are not good enough to compete in either dressage or western, I find quite rude.
    And you too-shame on you. You seem to think that unless it is "dressage" (stated with nose in the air) is is not "worthy, and the rest of us are somehow just getting by, all "mimbly nimbly" just riding around with no direction.......WOW. So, those of us who ride western had to come up with something worthy, so we named it "dressage". Hmmm.
         
        11-26-2012, 03:03 PM
      #190
    Trained
    I was just starting to comment on what you said about core"s post, positively, mind you.
    I really don't know where you get the idea from that I think no other discipline is worthy as you put it.
    Seems like you too interpret things said just the way you want it....geez, how narrow minded people can be sometimes.
    So to explain one more time, just for the record, my comment on WD was meant to maybe define why people see it necessary to have such a competition. And how to STANDARDIZE it in terms of judging.
    Nowhere did I say one or the other style of riding is better than the other. So please stop dreaming up reasons to argue with me.
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