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Western Dressage - Thoughts ?

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        11-26-2012, 07:39 PM
      #201
    Trained
    I believe the problem is in the definition of dressage. WD fans and us from the old world vs riders from the "new world". For us dressage begins with the simplest of maneuver, by "good riding", as has been said, competitive dressage fans consider only highest levels as real dressage and competitive western riders want nothing to do with it.

    I personally think WD is a neat idea to give riders a new possibility to compete in a sport, be it lower level now, with time higher levels also, with their horse and their favourite tack, and at the end have more educated horses and be more knowledgeable riders.
         
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        11-26-2012, 08:19 PM
      #202
    Super Moderator
    Kayty I'm not sure that I did misunderstand anebels post all - if I did then maybe she needs to think more carefully about the way she words things
    I do have every respect for the way dressage people work at what they do (though I have seen more than enough riders in my time who do just get on a valuable ready made horse in their sparkling boots and breeches too and if you've done a lot of competing then so will you) Its not just reserved for the dressage ring either.
    However I have as much respect for the kid who puts in hours a day to make their mounted games pony the best in the world or the one who puts in just as much work but never will be the best in the world because they don't have the nerve or the agility but still get a lot out of what they do.
    I've seen kids win in local jumping shows on a scrubby little pony that will never make it to JA (UK pony jumping) but work just as hard and will get just as much praise from me
    Deserthorsewoman, Bluebird and I have all grown up in European countries where dressage IS the basis for all our riding, maybe that's why we see it differently. I have ridden western trained horses since I've lived here - including a WP - in english tack in what I call my 'dressage based style' and they responded in exactly the same way as my english (born & bred in England) horses do (who were all broke and schooled and ridden on according to UK basic dressage standards) so I fail to see how their training can be any different to ours.
    One thing that was obvious to me several years ago when I was often roped in to 'scribe' at dressage shows was that the entries in the lower levels were way higher than the ones in the top levels - UK dressage is trying to encourage new people into the sport all the time and trying to remove the 'snobbery that's grown around it in recent years - and its competitors that are mostly to blame for that attitude not the judges or the governing bodies because they know that every bit of cash that comes in matters
    It doesnt matter what horse sport you do (including non competitive trail riding) or what level you're at if you're working to do your best at it then you are just as worthy of praise as anyone else IMO.
    I've seen far too much argument for arguments sake on this thread from dressage and some western riders, a lot of it not even relevant - for goodness sake what does it matter what they call it - If people out there want to do and get some benefit or pleasure out of what the hell business is it of anyone elses. If you don't like it complain to the governing bodies - see what they think of new names
    Yes give your opinions - say its not for you and why not if you feel the need to explain that but do we really need all this other endless crap about why it shouldnt exist?
    Enjoy your dressage or whatever else anyone does but allow others the right to enjoy something they want to do. Stop being so selfish
    Kayty - the YOU is not aimed at you personally
         
        11-26-2012, 08:35 PM
      #203
    Trained
    I agree totally Jaydee. I just think, after this thread and one previous that basically went the same route, that the people who do true-what I will call FEI type dressage-are unwilling to share the word for any other discipline. I personally think that perhaps some of the misunderstanding is that some of them look at it in a very purist sense, while others of us use it as more of a description of a style of riding? Not really sure, but they seem offended that anything not PURE uses the word dressage.
         
        11-26-2012, 08:44 PM
      #204
    Trained
    Jaydee, I've done my fair share of competing, and yes of course there are the minority who are like that.
    But they're in all English discplines, and I am to assume that they also exist in Western competition too.
    So again, you cannot tarnish Dressage riders with that brush, because it's actually the minority who fit your description.
    As I've said many, MANY times on this forum - very few of us actually have a 'ready made' horse. My current horse is a well bred warmblood, but I certainly didn't pay huge figures for him - why? Because the previous owner was scared of him - he spooks, bolts and gets shocking seperation anxiety.
    The people who I compete with an against are 99% in the same boat. I ride with school teachers, receptionists, payroll staff, retail staff, and most of them have worked extremely hard to afford what they have.
    And VERY few of us look 'perfect' day in day out. This is a load of rubbish - maybe US Dressage riders are far more 'snobby' than Australian Dressage riders?


    Ok and colour me confused. FIRST we are chastised for those Dressage riders on the board who claim that Dressage is the basis for ALL riding, all of the basic work that we do in whatever discipline you ride is Dressage.
    NOW, when it suits you - those of us who say no, Dressage is NOT the basis of all riding, you don't have to ride Dressage to be successful in other discplines - particularly the Western discplines - are deemed snobby because we don't want to 'share'??
    Juice box, anyone?
    bsms and core like this.
         
        11-26-2012, 09:05 PM
      #205
    Trained
    I think the 2 groups-the dressage "snobs" for lack of a better term (perhaps purist?"), and the rest of us....are using the same word to mean 2 different things. At least that what I think is happening. The first group is using it as a noun......the second more as a description of a style. Perhaps a less literal meaning, if you will. JMHO.
         
        11-26-2012, 09:16 PM
      #206
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kayty    
    Jaydee, I've done my fair share of competing, and yes of course there are the minority who are like that.
    But they're in all English discplines, and I am to assume that they also exist in Western competition too.
    So again, you cannot tarnish Dressage riders with that brush, because it's actually the minority who fit your description.
    As I've said many, MANY times on this forum - very few of us actually have a 'ready made' horse. My current horse is a well bred warmblood, but I certainly didn't pay huge figures for him - why? Because the previous owner was scared of him - he spooks, bolts and gets shocking seperation anxiety.
    The people who I compete with an against are 99% in the same boat. I ride with school teachers, receptionists, payroll staff, retail staff, and most of them have worked extremely hard to afford what they have.
    And VERY few of us look 'perfect' day in day out. This is a load of rubbish - maybe US Dressage riders are far more 'snobby' than Australian Dressage riders?


    Ok and colour me confused. FIRST we are chastised for those Dressage riders on the board who claim that Dressage is the basis for ALL riding, all of the basic work that we do in whatever discipline you ride is Dressage.
    NOW, when it suits you - those of us who say no, Dressage is NOT the basis of all riding, you don't have to ride Dressage to be successful in other discplines - particularly the Western discplines - are deemed snobby because we don't want to 'share'??
    Juice box, anyone?
    Now you have me confused - I didnt say that all riders are sat on 'ready made horses' - just that some are and I was no way tarnishing everyone with the same brush
    Where is the chatising thing coming from - I am someone who does think that most riding disciplines we see today did evolve from the same place - its something that's travelled with the people as they've migrated and then evolved - but I refuse to get into that argument again - people can believe whatever they want to believe. I really don't care - in fact I honestly don't care what anyone believes because too much is getting twisted around to suit
    I have had some small experience of dressage over here and they were very snobby about it but I don't know enough about the US in general to comment on them as a whole - the lady I bought my warmblood off is really nice and we still keep in touch - actually she is keen to see how the WD goes on as she sees it as money in her pocket from people wanting training so is very supportive of it
    I don't know what the costs of competing in Dressage at upper levels are like in Australia or the US but in the UK they are huge - really good riders are often reaching out for sponsors as they can't afford to go up a notch without. I had a super horse that did well in One day Eventing but no way could I afford the costs of going any higher so he was sold, same happens with good showjumpers in the UK, people can't afford to go any higher due to costs of competing and the horses get sold on to those with the money
         
        11-26-2012, 09:31 PM
      #207
    Trained
    Im right there with jaydee, regarding everything she said
         
        11-26-2012, 09:35 PM
      #208
    Banned
    I'm lost....I'm not quite sure where anyone stands, except for a couple of folks......
    Let's face it, WD - you either love it, hate it or want it to change its name!
    Kayty, bsms and LisaG like this.
         
        11-26-2012, 10:10 PM
      #209
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Muppetgirl    
    , WD - you either love it, hate it or want it to change its name!
    Here's my confusion. I've always been taught that Dressage (the word itself) means Training. So, using that definition, why would anyone object to Western Dressage? Western Training? I tend to be pretty literal minded, so I'm truly not getting the objection?
         
        11-26-2012, 10:13 PM
      #210
    Trained
    Dressage means training IN FRENCH. In English, it does not. We beat THAT horse to death about 100 posts back, I think...
    Kayty likes this.
         

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