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Western Dressage - Thoughts ?

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  • Klamath cowboy dressage
  • Cowboy dressage uk

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    03-02-2013, 12:55 PM
  #491
Foal
@Gotadun
Yeah, I'm aware that there is a big difference. Still, it's not like their conformation forces them to canter that way. Would it really hurt so much to pick up the speed just a tad so they aren't dragging their feet through the dirt? I don't think it's "wrong" or "incorrect", I just think they've taken AQHA gaits to the extreme.

I actually prefer the gaits that your friend dislayed over the ones the champion displayed ;)

@Tessa
No problem XD Do you agree with that placement?
     
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    03-02-2013, 10:17 PM
  #492
Foal
There are two aspects to good dressage work. The more important one to understand as a horseman is that the work has nothing to do with competition. It is a system of muscle development. It uses the weight of the horse as the resistance to build strength, and it's goal is to so condition the horse that it can carry weight equally on both sides of its body and have complete balance and freedom of movement. Those goals are not breed specific and can be applied to any of the three categories Opal names.

Dressage as a competition or discipline is also not breed specific. QHs have gone up the levels to Grand Prix and succeeded as have many other breeds. It does however, like all athletic endeavors, reward natural athletic ability.
     
    03-03-2013, 12:51 PM
  #493
Super Moderator
I'm definitely not going to guillotine anyone for what they wear (and I think the outfit was more connected to the fact that he's done a Garrocha demo on the same day) and same goes for hurling critique at anyone doing something for the first time on a green horse because I spent most of my horse working career doing that and no matter how much work you put in at home they can always mess up the first few times out. I defy anyone who's actually spent a lot of years around young horses to say otherwise
Whether anyone likes it or not the WD/CD competitions are going to appeal to lots of people - it may not be entirely new but it is appearing under a more accessible umbrella that's going to be open to all breeds and all riders in many parts of the world - the majority of who will never see real cattle/ranch work
The Light Handshorsemanship group (sponsored by Spalding Labs) are already putting their weight behind it - names like Jon Ensign, Lester Buckley, Jack Brainard, Sheila Varian (arabians) Rick lamb, Robert Miller, Richard Winters.
Theres one very good reason why they are supporting it too - its all about *$'s* If you have any interest in breeding horses, breaking horses, training horses, selling horses that might possibly find another niche in the competition world then you would be committing financial suicide to not get involved in anything that has the potential to open up a new market place - same goes for all the tack and clothing attached to it and the money made from clinics and shows.
If you're in the job of making money out of horses you can't afford to have a negativite attitude about anything. I would support painting horses in blue and white spots if I thought I could profit out of it
This is a mare that was for sale on the Modern Vaquero website a few years back that they were schooling for dressage after a previous career as a brood mare, reining horses & ranch horse. I did a lot of scribing for dressage judges in the past and find faults as you like but she would not disgrace herself in any UK Pony Club dressage test at the basic level which is where most ponies start out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzUOvu_f_IM
     
    03-03-2013, 01:12 PM
  #494
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
I'm definitely not going to guillotine anyone for what they wear (and I think the outfit was more connected to the fact that he's done a Garrocha demo on the same day) and same goes for hurling critique at anyone doing something for the first time on a green horse because I spent most of my horse working career doing that and no matter how much work you put in at home they can always mess up the first few times out. I defy anyone who's actually spent a lot of years around young horses to say otherwise
Whether anyone likes it or not the WD/CD competitions are going to appeal to lots of people - it may not be entirely new but it is appearing under a more accessible umbrella that's going to be open to all breeds and all riders in many parts of the world - the majority of who will never see real cattle/ranch work
The Light Handshorsemanship group (sponsored by Spalding Labs) are already putting their weight behind it - names like Jon Ensign, Lester Buckley, Jack Brainard, Sheila Varian (arabians) Rick lamb, Robert Miller, Richard Winters.
Theres one very good reason why they are supporting it too - its all about *$'s* If you have any interest in breeding horses, breaking horses, training horses, selling horses that might possibly find another niche in the competition world then you would be committing financial suicide to not get involved in anything that has the potential to open up a new market place - same goes for all the tack and clothing attached to it and the money made from clinics and shows.
If you're in the job of making money out of horses you can't afford to have a negativite attitude about anything. I would support painting horses in blue and white spots if I thought I could profit out of it
This is a mare that was for sale on the Modern Vaquero website a few years back that they were schooling for dressage after a previous career as a brood mare, reining horses & ranch horse. I did a lot of scribing for dressage judges in the past and find faults as you like but she would not disgrace herself in any UK Pony Club dressage test at the basic level which is where most ponies start out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzUOvu_f_IM
I absolutely agree with your reasoning. Not that I think "we" need it but the current horsemarket needs all the help it can get. And, as I said, if it helps people to open their minds I'm all for it.
The only thing I personally would have a problem with is judging it like a modern dressage competition. Classical dressage, yeah, but not today's. It will lose the lightness.
Unfortunately the video is not available for mobile
     
    03-03-2013, 02:24 PM
  #495
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by deserthorsewoman    
I absolutely agree with your reasoning. Not that I think "we" need it but the current horsemarket needs all the help it can get. And, as I said, if it helps people to open their minds I'm all for it.
The only thing I personally would have a problem with is judging it like a modern dressage competition. Classical dressage, yeah, but not today's. It will lose the lightness.
Unfortunately the video is not available for mobile
The pony on the Modern Vaquero youtube site that I've linked too is working at 'modern dressage' - Ok not going to top level but them how many actually do compete or can afford to compete to that standard. Every week the UK's top horse mags (Horse & Hound) have lages of results and photos of people competing at novice & prelim level on all shapes and sizes of horses and ponies - it encourages everyone to get into the game
The Cowboy Dressage that these people are mostly getting into is not meant to be judged as european dressage at all - which is why they broke away I think.
I don't know much about 'bridle horses' & the Vaquero style at all but other than ranch/cattle work and displays is there actually a competition to show them off and test their skills? From what I read on some of their websites they seem to see CD as a showplace for it.
This is a statement from Sheila Valerians website
A lot of people said that Le Trec wouldnt catch on in the UK and yet it keeps growing in popularity because it fills a gap
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    03-03-2013, 02:40 PM
  #496
Yearling
See, from my opinion....WD and CD is nothing like Dressage. From the vids posted...it's almost insulting to put the term "dressage" on it. It's just some "catchy" name a few pioneers have put on it to draw in western people, and I find a HUGE disservice to Dressage with that...and I'm a western person!!!! (I should say I do it all....Dressage, Western and Hunt Seat but that's not the point.) Someone said we don't "need" another discipline and I have to agree like this. Look....Dressage has a VERY defined term and to use it in combination with what I have seen here...is quite frankly.....a big joke. Call it something else please.
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    03-03-2013, 02:48 PM
  #497
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotaDunQH    
See, from my opinion....WD and CD is nothing like Dressage. From the vids posted...it's almost insulting to put the term "dressage" on it. It's just some "catchy" name a few pioneers have put on it to draw in western people, and I find a HUGE disservice to Dressage with that...and I'm a western person!!!! (I should say I do it all....Dressage, Western and Hunt Seat but that's not the point.) Someone said we don't "need" another discipline and I have to agree like this. Look....Dressage has a VERY defined term and to use it in combination with what I have seen here...is quite frankly.....a big joke. Call it something else please.
I think that's because you only see dressage in the context of the modern european dressage competitions whereas in Europe its still seen as 'training' which is what it originally was - training tests for what was the new style of riding that evolved from the Haute ecole movement and that was a test of movements that were once used in battle - the Haute Ecole was pretty much only for the military establishments of the day.
There have been dressage tests for driving horses for a long time and now there are dressage tests for gaited horses.
I'm a british rider who's foundation in riding is based on the modern dressage style because that's how most British riders are taught - does not mean you have to ride with long stirrups and a dressage saddle its just the basic technique and I don't have a problem with anyone using the word 'dressage'
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    03-03-2013, 03:26 PM
  #498
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
I think that's because you only see dressage in the context of the modern european dressage competitions whereas in Europe its still seen as 'training' which is what it originally was - training tests for what was the new style of riding that evolved from the Haute ecole movement and that was a test of movements that were once used in battle - the Haute Ecole was pretty much only for the military establishments of the day.
There have been dressage tests for driving horses for a long time and now there are dressage tests for gaited horses.
I'm a british rider who's foundation in riding is based on the modern dressage style because that's how most British riders are taught - does not mean you have to ride with long stirrups and a dressage saddle its just the basic technique and I don't have a problem with anyone using the word 'dressage'
Exactly. We Europeans grow up with "flatwork", which is the general schooling, the base for everything, in America called "dressage". For us it's not. It's basic riding. We all do shoulder in's, leg yields, half halts etc as daily work. Even jumpers are schooled like that. Competitions are dressage competitions, different levels, but are not special, it's just proof of what you learned. It's hard to explain. Maybe because it's so normal for us. This is why I don't understand all the craze about dressage here
I bet you guys have seen a youtube clip of western vs English, a dressage rider and a reiner switch horses. Both are German. And if you watch the reiner riding the dressage horse....he's looking a lot better on it and has way less trouble than the dressage rider on the QH. This is due to the basic dressage training we receive in lessons.
Now if that would happen in general here, there wouldn't be so much controversy about WD
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    03-04-2013, 06:21 PM
  #499
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal    
@Gotadun
Yeah, I'm aware that there is a big difference. Still, it's not like their conformation forces them to canter that way. Would it really hurt so much to pick up the speed just a tad so they aren't dragging their feet through the dirt? I don't think it's "wrong" or "incorrect", I just think they've taken AQHA gaits to the extreme.

I actually prefer the gaits that your friend dislayed over the ones the champion displayed ;)

@Tessa
No problem XD Do you agree with that placement?
Haha, yeah. I've never heard them categorized like that. Yeah I think western dressage would fall under the show category.
     
    03-05-2013, 09:49 PM
  #500
Green Broke
Originally that was why the National Reined Cow Horse Association was started, to showcase the Bridlehorse and the process. The whole idea was to show the same horse every year through the process...first year in the snaffle and/or hackamore, next time in the two-rein and final year in the bridle. But they seem to have evolved away from that idea unfortunately.

Here in NV most the ranch rodeos have a stock horse class for showing your horse in a snaffle, hackamore, two-rein and bridle and the fair horse shows are geared to it as well, even for the kids.( they also have the usually 4H, FFA, and jackpot barrel racing and team roping) I believe Bruce Sandifer has started the Californio Bridlehorse Assoc. - Mission

Perhaps Cowboy Dressage fits in for those who do not have access to ranch rodeos and stock/ranch horse shows. However that video posted earlier was in Oregon, I think Klamath Falls?, no lack of stock horse shows or ranch rodeos around there.
Perhaps I am missing the appeal...just because I don't want to do it doesn't mean others won't! LOL!

As for Wanstroms tapedero comment, I will back her on that one. No one up here wears tapederos in the summer and hardly in the winter(unless it is really cold or there is snow on the brush). But he(Jeff Sanders) didn't wear them just for that show, pretty much any video of him no matter the time of year he is sporting tapederos, a wool vest and a wild rag. It doesn't get that cold in Fallon in the summer(the banana belt of NV, they grow melons! LOL) Most guys that are actually handy around here don't feel the need to get that dressed up. Last weekend was Winnemucca Ranch Hand Rodeo, no one there, I seen, that makes nice bridle horses and cowboys well wore anything fancy whether they were entered or not. Most likely you see a hat, a jacket of some sort over a long sleeved shirt and plain boots, maybe Brogans, or mens dress shoes. And I do not recall seeing one set of tapederos.(although I spent my time in the beer garden so I may have missed them..LOL)
deserthorsewoman and Opal like this.
     

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