Where did all the honest people/horses go?
   

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Where did all the honest people/horses go?

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    09-12-2011, 11:15 PM
  #1
Foal
Unhappy Where did all the honest people/horses go?

Recently I have noticed the quality of people and horses to go down. It all started when my older brother decided to get back into horses. This was a big deal for him and he wanted to take the time into finding the right horse for him. He found a horse that he loved which was a 4 yr old palomino gelding. The only problem was that it was close to spring planting and he would be too busy to spend time with this horse. So he sent it to a trainer to get more hours on him and to work on some reining. 2 weeks before we went to pick him up the trainer called and said they had bad news, his horse cracked some ribs rough housing with other horses. So we picked him up. Had several different vets looks at him and finally cleared him for riding. We took our time, doing a bunch of ground work and he seemed just like he normally was. Until we tried to ride him. I've never seen a horse buck so hard in my life. We called the trainer and she said she had no idea, then later lied to my dad saying the horse was crazy to begin with and my brother never should have bought him. We ended up selling him as a bucking horse.

Then, my father who is 65, decided now that he was retired he wanted to get a good trail horse and live the life on the back of a horse. Went to look at this horse that they swore was bomb proof. He rode it around and decided to go with it, since it was 14 yr old and was a been there done that horse. He brought it home and the first night he rode it he did ok. Tried to take off right when he got on but my dad got him under control. The next night he rode him, my dad got on and the horse bolted and my dad couldn't get him back in control and ended up bailing and going to the ER with a broken nose, and fractured cheek bone and eye socket. While he was gone my brother got on him and he did the same thing, by brother was trying to put him in a circle and the horse wasn't listening and ended up breaking a rein. And he had to bail too. He got back on and the horse immediately started bucking and threw him off and bucked all the way back to the yard.

Sorry about this novel but it is just so frustrating to have this happen to good people. I mean we do our research before we buy but lately it seems like people will do whatever to make a sale instead of taking their time to make a good honest horse.
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    09-13-2011, 12:58 AM
  #2
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by potucek    
Recently I have noticed the quality of people and horses to go down. It all started when my older brother decided to get back into horses. This was a big deal for him and he wanted to take the time into finding the right horse for him. He found a horse that he loved which was a 4 yr old palomino gelding. The only problem was that it was close to spring planting and he would be too busy to spend time with this horse. So he sent it to a trainer to get more hours on him and to work on some reining. 2 weeks before we went to pick him up the trainer called and said they had bad news, his horse cracked some ribs rough housing with other horses. So we picked him up. Had several different vets looks at him and finally cleared him for riding. We took our time, doing a bunch of ground work and he seemed just like he normally was. Until we tried to ride him. I've never seen a horse buck so hard in my life. We called the trainer and she said she had no idea, then later lied to my dad saying the horse was crazy to begin with and my brother never should have bought him. We ended up selling him as a bucking horse.

Then, my father who is 65, decided now that he was retired he wanted to get a good trail horse and live the life on the back of a horse. Went to look at this horse that they swore was bomb proof. He rode it around and decided to go with it, since it was 14 yr old and was a been there done that horse. He brought it home and the first night he rode it he did ok. Tried to take off right when he got on but my dad got him under control. The next night he rode him, my dad got on and the horse bolted and my dad couldn't get him back in control and ended up bailing and going to the ER with a broken nose, and fractured cheek bone and eye socket. While he was gone my brother got on him and he did the same thing, by brother was trying to put him in a circle and the horse wasn't listening and ended up breaking a rein. And he had to bail too. He got back on and the horse immediately started bucking and threw him off and bucked all the way back to the yard.

Sorry about this novel but it is just so frustrating to have this happen to good people. I mean we do our research before we buy but lately it seems like people will do whatever to make a sale instead of taking their time to make a good honest horse.
To be fair, and completely honest, most things of quality are no longer taken seriously. Most things, but not all.

I was looking at saddles not too long ago at a local tack shop and noticed something very disturbing. Most of them were build shoddily by un-dedicated craftsmen. The leather was actually on the verge of ripping off with just a tug on one.

Same goes for horses. There just isn't any dedication towards preserving the best of the best. It's more about money, for some people, than genuine love for the occupation.
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    09-13-2011, 01:28 AM
  #3
Weanling
I'm so sorry this happened! Are you going to sell the 2nd horse with full disclosure? I hope your dad doesn't try to get back on him.

This is one of my biggest fears when the day comes and I buy a horse. That is why I would like an off farm lease, maybe 30 days if I could. I know sellers hate this and I understand. At the very least, I plan on finding a reputable barn and have a couple of people with me. And even then people get screwed!

You didn't get these horses from traders did you? I know some people have a lot of luck with traders but it's just too risky for me.
All buyers ask is that the horse is what they are paying for and is as described. It's a shame so many people are taken advantage of. It's not just losing money. A buyer can lose their life. I don't know how sellers live with themselves.

I asked my trainer about the word "bombproof" and she never heard of it. I ride English and maybe it's not an English term? I wonder if the word bombproof itself is maybe a sign that a seller is dishonest?

I don't know as much about purchasing horses as I've never owned one yet, but I know from working for a vet and doing rescue, there are certain words backyard breeders will use when selling dogs. And as soon as you see those words, you know it's a backyard breeder who is breeding for bucks and not quality.

Are there any terms that could tip off a buyer that a seller is being less than honest?

Don't mean to hijack your thread. When I buy a horse next year, I want a good trail horse like your dad. I know a lot of people think that trail horses are just dead head and dime a dozen, but IME, a good, solid trail horse is every bit as valuable as any other discipline. It may seem there are lot of good trail horses by ads, but experience says otherwise. Finding a good honest horse that isn't a spooker, bolter, bucker on the trail is actually harder to find than one would think.

I hope your dad isn't turned off to riding. I can totally see a man in his 60's just wanting to hang out and trail ride. He has every right to do that. I hope he's okay and that he finds his perfect horse.
     
    09-13-2011, 03:17 AM
  #4
Weanling
Angry

For the second horse I would demand my money back! If they don't give it back and take the horse, take them for all they are worth in court!

This is sooo dangerous! If you want advice contact john O'Leary from Horse problems australia web site, he has taken many people to court with similar cases and won. He might be able to give you some advice but I wouldn't take that laying down!

The horse industry has become really dishonest and it's not just where you are, it's everywhere, money money money is all these people care about! And it's not on! Stand up for yourselves and demand better! I had a horse that deliberatly double barrelled me in the face, I got rid of him FULL DISCLOSURE and I got an email from some old bitty that was on the council of a club i'm a member of, going off at me saying that I was irresponsible for trying to find a home for a 6yo horse with full disclosure, I guess she would rather me sell him for top dollar saying he is bomb proof.

Your dad's first clue should have been that the seller said the horse was bomb proof, i'm sorry but there is no such thing. For your brother I would be looking into the trainer more and the seller and find out who is lying.

I fell for your family, I really do, I have been a victim myself. There are honest people out there, they can be hard to find at times though.

Good luck xxx
     
    09-13-2011, 06:35 AM
  #5
Super Moderator
Sorry for your bad experience! People trying to rip-off others are always out there. It was a case 20 years ago, it's a case now, and I'm positive will be a case 20 years from now. Sounds like you were very unlucky.

I'd suggest next time you shop to find a trainer with recommendations and ask if he/she can go with you on horse shopping or help to find a horse (most trainers in my area have no problem with it).
     
    09-13-2011, 07:04 AM
  #6
Yearling
In fairness, people have been trying to pawn dodgy horses off on each other since horses have been bought and sold. "Horse-dealer" or "horse-trader" have been euphemisms for skeezy characters with shady business dealings for several centuries now.

I've heard many stories like yours, most frequently from inexperienced horsepeople. The horse-market isn't for the novice. Always best to take an experienced friend or trainer if you're not sure what you're looking at.
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    09-13-2011, 07:20 AM
  #7
Started
Another problem is a horse that behaves very well in the first couple of weeks then it hits the fan. That I find is the horse trying to be the boss and I have news for it. Time fixed that one.

Bomb proof, no such thing. All horses will loose the plot given the right conditions. My personal preference is for a younger horse, at least what tricks they pull are new and not years of learned behaviour.

We to have our sharks in the industry and well done those that disclose problems the horse may have. The good horses are there, you may have to go to a breder or well known trainer to find it, and that will equal dollars.

As for trail or what I call trekking horses. My belief is the temperament is important but like a teenager it changes as it ages. (sorry younger readers you can pay me back later) Experence is what the horse is exposed to over time and is ongoing, so Bomb Proof can not be, as each outing presents different conditions which the horse learns to cope with. Some never do.

My avatar Stella was a horse used by a riding school where they went single file and each horse knew its place. When I took her out of what she was comfortable with she lost it, and became a different horse than what I first rode and brought. Her confidence gone. And mine going
A rising 8 year old with some dressage training but to be used for trekking and that is a special horse just as in any other discipline.

I am not steeling this thread but it is a subject most of us have had some misfortune to deal with. For my part Stella is being retrained the first hurdle to get over is to get her to like me again. Mares !!! I jest, she knows who butters the bread, she is just playing hard to get.
     
    09-13-2011, 08:13 AM
  #8
Showing
OP, I'm very sorry you've gotten to see the ugly side of the horse world. Unfortunately there have been shady sellers (and buyers) in the horse world since the existence of the horse market and they will always be out there.

I couldn't count the number of deals gone wrong stories I've heard over the years.
There are still good, honest folks out there though.

As already said, it's always a great idea to take an experienced horse person along when checking out any horse. I've been at this horse thing my whole life (was born into it) and I still take an extra pair of trained eyes anytime I'm looking at a potential buy and depending on the price tag I will also have my farrier ride along and the vet has on occasion as well.
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    09-13-2011, 09:09 AM
  #9
Weanling
I am curious to know what you paid for the horses. Price can sound great but be a huge red flag.
     
    09-13-2011, 09:13 AM
  #10
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
Sorry for your bad experience! People trying to rip-off others are always out there. It was a case 20 years ago, it's a case now, and I'm positive will be a case 20 years from now. Sounds like you were very unlucky.
So true.

Horse trader was a bad word long before used car salesman was.
     

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