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Whips :(

This is a discussion on Whips :( within the Horse Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category

     
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        03-25-2009, 10:36 AM
      #11
    Foal
    I use it to reinforce my leg on shoolies that have dead sides because I have to get the message through. (Blah I hate it when people let them get away with things and let them move really slow.)
    I don't whip for no reason however.
         
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        03-25-2009, 10:53 AM
      #12
    Weanling
    A whip is a training device, NOT a required riding tool. At least, that's how I learned it, and how I teach it to my students.

    So many people use a whip as a "quick fix" to get their horse to be more responsive... but then they become dependant on it, and cannot motivate their horse to move forward without the use of a crop or spurs. Many people use the whip or spurs as a crutch. As a rider, instructor, and trainer... it really dissapoints me =/

    I have a bat, crop, and dressage whip, but rarely use any of em ;P Don't get me wrong, I will use a crop as a "hearing aid" to get the horse's focus back on me, but as soon as I have the attention, I throw the crop over the arena fence and continue my ride. The Dressage whip is a great leg extender, and i'd occasionally use it while riding to help get a horse to move off my leg (i would place the whip further back on the horse's belly and tap, then use the pressure of my leg to encourage a lateral movement). But then I just get the horse to cue from my body and leg =)

    In my opinion...... if you cannot motivate your horse to move forward willingly, whether it be over a jump, or around a barrel, or through a trail, etc without using a whip EVERY TIME... you shouldnt be jumping or barrel racing... you should be working on flat work, or you need to find another career for your horse, because its evident he isnt having a good time ;)

    Furthermore... i've seen hormonal teens (and adults) get frustrated because their horse refused to jump (after jumping some 22 fences already) then they proceeded to beat the horse on the poll/neck rip them in a tight circle by their mouth, then kick (might I add, they had spurs too) and whip the horse until he jumps it over and over and over again "willingly" (i.e. Without a refusal, because there is nothing willing about that horse jumping. It only jumps to not get beat). Anyways, where I was going with that was... some riders shouldnt be allowed to ride with a BIT.. let alone crop/spurs.

    Sooooo my stance... whips and spurs aren't cruel... in the right hands. But in the wrong hands, whips and spurs can be the worst inventions in the Horse World, and thoroughly ruin a horse.

    I hope that whole mess I wrote makes sense :p
         
        03-25-2009, 12:19 PM
      #13
    Weanling
    Well said, Skippy :) I once leased an extremely buddy sour gelding who would not go out on the trail alone, much less leave the ranch. So all I had to do was carry a crop, not use it, just carry it and he was great.

    I am in the process of teaching the new ex racer to lunge. Yesterday he pulled the "I don't have to do anything you want or even acknowledge you are there"...basically was acting like he had never done it before. All it took was a couple whip cracks aimed at his feet and he got moving. I agree that you don't have to hit them with the whip to get them to respect it, sometimes just carrying it is enough. But I don't have a problem whacking them once if they are doing something dangerous like kicking at me, that is not tolerated.
         
        03-25-2009, 12:39 PM
      #14
    Started
    I just noticed that I haven't used my whip forever xD I have it always just incase I need to use it but I haven't used it. I've only used it once on the horse i'm riding and that was because she was having a lazy day but I only had to use it at the beginning of the lesson once and through out the whole lesson she was really good :)
         
        03-25-2009, 01:53 PM
      #15
    Super Moderator
    I have a crop but I bought it to carry with me as an aid on the ground. I used just the handle, to press against my horses side or shoulder when he invaded my space....
         
        03-25-2009, 02:10 PM
      #16
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by farmpony84    
    I have a crop but I bought it to carry with me as an aid on the ground. I used just the handle, to press against my horses side or shoulder when he invaded my space....
    I was going to mention this in my first post, but I think crops/whips are a great tool for teaching a disrespectful horse (as you said, one that invades space, and pushes into you etc). After all... they ARE 1,500 pound animals... we need some sort of "edge" when they finally realize their size and try to use it against us.

    Miakoda is 6, and 15.3 hh. When I got her she was -BARELY- broke to lead. I haven't had to use a crop, but I -have- had to use *gasp* a stud chain. Currently when I lead her further than the turn out, I have the chain over her nose. She is/was EXTREMELY disrespectful and will bulldoze me if she decides she is not happy. When I was first teaching her to back on the lead line, she actually continually lunged forward with her head held very high trying to run me over and knock me down with her neck/shoulder, then she was so stiff, she would briskly walk fast circles around me and refuse to let me have her head.

    I am only 160 lbs. She is 1,500 and disrespectful. The equation wasn't balanced, and I was on the losing end.

    I had to use the stud chain only twice. The first time she did something I warned her that it wasn't just the halter over her nose. The second time, I gave it about a medium crank, and she stopped. And though I am still putting it on her, I haven't used it for about a week or so. I think that she is almost ready for a trial without the chain.

    Thankfully I had this tool available because without it, I could have the potential of being seriously injured. But, I also knew how to use the tool, and when to remove the tool =)

    So I agree with ya Farmpony, having a crop in hand while leading a disrespectful horse can be a great insurancy policy! =)

    And thanks Rosie! I'm glad you could interpret my ramblings! LOL!
         
        03-25-2009, 02:19 PM
      #17
    Trained
    I don't think stud chains, whips, crops, bats, or spurs are inherently cruel. I think they can be cruel if used out of anger or frustration but as reinforcers of our aids when a horse is not listening, they can be useful. I think it was Skippy who said that you shouldn't need them all the time. I agree. I don't ever use a whip (though I have been advised I should once I start jumping so I probably will carry it just in case) but I do use blunt ended spurs. I have very short legs and if a my horse is ignoring my cues after I ask and tell him, I will demand it with a little roll from my spur -- I would do the same thing with a crop.
         
        03-25-2009, 06:48 PM
      #18
    Started
    I defenately agree about the stud chain, when I first got painter hw would literally knock me over to get in his stall. I was 75lbs, he's 1200lbs, so he had a bit of an advanatge. I used a stud chain everytime I hndled him for several months, and I was not at all gentle when he tried to run me down (he would scrape me off on walls, spins, kick, or just plain run me over with his chest to get in his stall) Now I never use it and can put him away with one finger on the leadrope
         
        03-25-2009, 07:11 PM
      #19
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Spastic_Dove    
    I don't think stud chains, whips, crops, bats, or spurs are inherently cruel. I think they can be cruel if used out of anger or frustration but as reinforcers of our aids when a horse is not listening, they can be useful. I think it was Skippy who said that you shouldn't need them all the time. I agree. I don't ever use a whip (though I have been advised I should once I start jumping so I probably will carry it just in case) but I do use blunt ended spurs. I have very short legs and if a my horse is ignoring my cues after I ask and tell him, I will demand it with a little roll from my spur -- I would do the same thing with a crop.
    I agree with you 100%.

    I rarely need to use a stick or spurs though. My legs are strong enough that I don't really need them unless I'm riding a stiff-sided horse or if the horse is misbehaving.
         
        03-25-2009, 07:38 PM
      #20
    Yearling
    When I volunteer to lead the horses, we have to carry a crop with us. The horses are being led by different people, some with very little experience or confidence. Some of them can be testy with the strongest leaders. The crops give the leaders more confinence and the horses can tell. If we need to use it, it's usually just placed on them to reinforce a "Ho" and sometimes behind their elbow to give them a bit more go. The only time they were ever used in a disciplinary fasion was when Issac tried to bite his leader. He can be nasty, and likes to make sure you pay attention to him at all times. Once he realized his leader would not take his crap he was fine the rest of the class.
         

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