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Whips :(

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    03-25-2009, 07:46 PM
  #21
Yearling
If my horse won't do something I know they can do.. Like get over a tiny crossrail or canter once around the ring, I might give them a tap on the shoulder and or, if they're really being stubborn, a smack on the behind, but I don't like, abuse them with it. .
     
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    03-25-2009, 07:48 PM
  #22
Yearling
Sometimes I'll just carry it to wake my horse up.
If they're being lazy, one smack and all it takes is a nudge after that.
     
    03-25-2009, 09:40 PM
  #23
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by IheartPheobe    
Sometimes I'll just carry it to wake my horse up.
If they're being lazy, one smack and all it takes is a nudge after that.
I don't think that's abusing them or anything, but I wouldn't use a whip to wake a horse up. Whether the skin is thicker or not, you wouldn't like it, and horses have equal rights to us.

I agree with a lot of the posts. I don't have time to write something really big right now, but hopefully the discussion will/can continue - it has been interesting.
     
    03-25-2009, 10:22 PM
  #24
Yearling
You wouldnt like it if a horse was stumbling under you due to not being awake and attentive. Nor would the horse since he would likely hurt himself. A horse being awake is nessesary to his health and well being.
     
    03-25-2009, 10:39 PM
  #25
Foal
My horse knows better than to think he can get away with misbehaving.

But when he does have some 'tude I do give him a firm smack with a crop or my hand.

Certain behaviors are just unacceptable.

But I would never beat him with a whip or anything
     
    03-25-2009, 11:47 PM
  #26
Weanling
I very much agree with Skippy.


Must say tho... I gave up using wips long ago. My horses never responded very well to them. 1 horse because he was abused so had a huge fear of them, and the other if you tapped he would just ignore it, if you gave him a wack( just one on the butt ) would try and do little rears or buck you off. And I have been better off without them.

I actually HATE seeing them in jumping . As I have only a few times seen them used correctly ( as in one single smack on the behind ) , every other time the horse has pretty much been layed into, this is even at big shows. As far as I see the horse shouldnt cop such a growling when 99.99% of the time its the riders fault for a horse that's ....so called
' misbehaveing ' , especially at shows.

Im a little undesided about useing them to ... say...scare away a bossy or invasive horse. I for one have never had to use a wip in such a situation, the waveing of my hands and a low growly voice has always sufficed.

As far as I see a wip was designed for one thing.....an extention of your arm as an aid. Its not for dissipline. Such use as a guide for cues/aids in dressage I find totally acceptible. Or even an extention of your arm in ground training, to keep your self out of the kicking zone of a sparky young one or a similar situation. Also in Lungeing I find the use of the wip fine, as you are not supposed to hit the horse with a lunge wip is just a noise aid.

I personally would try almost any other way of sorting a situation before going for the wip.
     
    03-25-2009, 11:57 PM
  #27
Trained
Horses do not have equal rights as humans as much as we love them...
Their skin is sensitive (they can feel a fly, remember?) but they still will not be hurt by a reprimand from a whip. If you go wailing on their head or something, that is different obviously.

Note: When I say reprimand I mean reprimanding for not responding to my lighter cues.
     
    03-26-2009, 12:03 AM
  #28
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratlover    
I think that whips are cruel.

How would we like to be whipped? It's hardly fair to whip horses.

Does anybody agree, and if not, why not?

Would love to hear some opinions on this.

What is cruel isn't the whip but it's cruel when a person misuses it for punishment.

How a bit is used can be very cruel if the rider yanks, jerks and basically tries to punish the horse with it.

Spurs can be cruel if the rider uses them to punish the horse by jabbing the horse with them.

Point is...it's not the whip. Take the stigma off the whip. It doesn't belong there. The "blame" belongs with those people who are cruel and who act cruel out of meanness or ignorance or both.

It is cruel to whip a horse. It's not cruel to use the whip to help the horse understand you better, to use the whip as an extension of your hand.

For example, I use whips all the time, like this:

I am standing facing the horse. The horse is facing me. I look at the horse's left shoulder. I want that left shoulder to move, to have the front feet cross over and the horse to turn to my left.

I look at that shoulder and I kiss or cluck and then I tap the air (1...2...3...4) with the whip and then if the horse doesn't move, I tap the shoulder with the whip with rhythm, never a whack. I tap softly, then more assertively and more assertively, never to sting the horse's shoulder, but to "bounce" the whip off the shoulder and the horse feels bothered, not pain, not fear, but bothered....and he moves that shoulder and I stop.

Next time, I do the exact same steps, then the horse begins to learn there's a pattern, and then the horse decides to move the shoulder when I simply make a kiss sound or cluck sound and then I don't even need to use a whip anymore.

This is the correct way to use a whip. A whip is a great back up to a cue. It's a great way to help the horse understand you better and your goal should be to not need a back up cue, therefore phasing out the whip, but to begin with, you need to have a way to back up your cue and a whip is a great aid in this respect.

I never want my horse to be afraid of my tools. If he fears the whip, I'll make the whip a pleasant experience by rubbing his body with it and when he's comfortable with the whip, then I'll use it as I described above but I'll never use it to punish the horse.
     
    04-02-2009, 04:03 AM
  #29
Started
I drive horses. You don't have legs on them when driving! The whip is used for many things in driving, such as helping encourage a bend. Nothing cruel about them, if they are used correctly.
     
    04-03-2009, 07:52 AM
  #30
Started
Whips, bits, and spurs are not cruel. They are objects.. Tools, when used properly, that can help us communicate with the horse. As mentioned, an extension of our arm or leg..

Cruelty is in the mind of the human who misuses the tool with malice, anger, or ignorance.
     

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