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Would You Buy A Horse That Killed It's Last Rider?

This is a discussion on Would You Buy A Horse That Killed It's Last Rider? within the Horse Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category

     
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        03-27-2011, 05:05 PM
      #41
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dressagebelle    
    Even my parents who aren't particularly horsey people wouldn't have EVER allowed me to get a horse like that, and even now that I'm 26 and have my own training business, they would highly discourage my getting a horse or training a horse like that.
    My mum who is horsey would KILL me if I even thought of buying a Rearer! My father thinks I shouldnt be riding anyway! I've already done serious damage to my back from a horse summersaulting on me!
         
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        03-27-2011, 05:27 PM
      #42
    Started
    Quote:
    I did however convince her to call the owner back and find out why he rears. I'll post that when I get that answer from her sometime this afternoon.)
    As an answer to this ...you ready for it.... they said they had bought the horse and it has always reared. They've had the horse for about 7 months(so they told her)

    Quote:
    This sounds like a spoiled child (you said her parents just do as she tells them she wants to). I've seen this type of behavior with some kids my children grew up with and it never turns out good. You told her how dangerous it was to buy this horse, your BO refused to sell her a horse because she did what she wanted to regardless of being told not to. Sometimes you just have to step back. You told her the dangers, and her parents are of no help; she will do this especially because of the warnings.

    As a last resort, you could appeal to the sellers.
    She is very spoiled. If her mom wont let her go to a show she freaks out about how much she hates her mom and what not. I'm like seriously your mom pays almost 60 bucks a week for your private lesson and then almost 200 dollars for shows.(I didn't say that to her when she complained about her mom but I was thinking it.)


    Quote:
    OP, you've already tried talking to her parents. As you said, it's time to get her trainer involved. After all, he/she is going to be the one who has to deal with this nutcase of a horse the majority of the time.

    Maybe another adult, especially an authority figure, can get through to her parents.

    This child has been riding for 4 years on what I'm going to assume are well trained, school horses. She has NO clue that there are horses in this world that are just flat out dangerous, and should never be ridden. A chronic flipper is one of those.

    I've been riding for 33 years. No way, no how would I take on a flipper. That horse would be put out to pasture or euthed, depending on its ground manners.

    There are far too many good, sane, safe horses out there to risk life and limb on one with a shady history.
    Yeah I'm with you I emailed the trainer just before I responded to this thread. I hope he checks it soon...she has a lesson on tuesday and I hope he can talk to her then about it just bring up the danger of a rearing horse or something...you know what No. I honestly don't care if she gets mad at me for this...I'm possibly saving her life or serious injury. She'll get over it eventually at least I can say I tried.

    I also even offered to search for some good horses for her. He trainer even said he'll let her lease one of his horses for half the price and to not go out and buy one just yet. Does she listen nope. ~sigh~

    Quote:
    Wow, could I rant on this one. So if it gets long winded, sorry in advance. I tend to agree quite a bit with Maura's scale. If it is out of pain it is one thing, but this sounds like another thing completely.

    I have been training horses for 18 years, have a mom who is a retired trainer and a grandfather who is a retired trainer. I WOULD NOT TAKE THIS HORSE IF THEY GAVE HIM TO ME.

    I have re-trained a couple horses over the years that would rear, but nothing near as bad as this one sounds. It is not fun, easy or enjoyable in any respect. I would gladly take any bronc type bucker, bolter, charger, biter, kicker before another who rears. Some can be rehabbed, but most tend to revert to that as their escape method when in an uncomfortable for them situation regardless of training/fixing time. A dear friend of mine will never have children from one going over on her so I have a huge distaste for a rearing horse. If a client asked me to take on a rearing horse that had already killed someone, I would 100% turn them down.

    a 16 yr old, REGARDLESS of how good of a rider is, cannot possibly have logged enough training hours to deal with an issue such as that. I had already trained a handful of horses from start to finish at that age and I would have never considered one that had that problem and my mom most certainly would have stepped in had I thought I was "big enough" to deal with it. SHAME ON HER PARENTS for even considering it. They are giving their daughter permission for e.r. Visits and possibly worse given he has killed one owner already.
    I agree with everything in this but the bolded parts stand out. She definitely can't get in enough hours as she can only make it to the barn ONCE a week for one hour long lesson So there's no way she would even be able to train it.

    Quote:
    At 16, she is romanticizing the situation. She is already picturing herself curing this horse of rearing by love alone - just like in the movies. She's not mature enough yet, apparently to pick a proper horse out for herself - she's obviously over estimating her abilities and experience.

    Not only would I warn her trainer about what she's up to, I would bluntly ask her parents if she has enough medical insurance to cover the inveitable serious injuries she will likely incurr, and enough life insurance to cover her funeral expenses in case the horse lives up to his reputation.

    If she's boarding her horses, or will be boarding, I would also tell the BO about the horse's past. I don't know of a responsible BO that would allow a horse like that on the property. The horse could hurt someone other than his dreamy eyed new owner, too.

    Sorry if I come across as too blunt - but I've seen too many parents who believe their kids were superriders that end up taking care of the kids for the rest of their lives due life altering injuries from horses they had no business on.
    First bolding - Exactly she said she could do it. I have been riding longer than her and she tries to give me tips which don't work. Example Phantom is horrible at turning and she said she had a "turn" that could fix him. She got on him and he wouldn't turn for her so I made her get off. Then she showed me a video of what she meant. I told her that was called a roll back and Phantom can't/wasn't trained to do that. Her reply was "Oh all horses can do it naturally I see it all the time."

    Second bolding - I emailed her trainer about it and I'm waiting for a reply but he would also be the one to board it and I KNOW he wouldn't let a rearer on his property. I've only met him a few times but we had some awesome conversations together. The thing I'm worried about is my friend lying about it rearing...she'll literally do anything.



    I have talked to her so much about this. I told her NOT to take the first horse that comes along. Wait and see and the right one would come along. She knows about my horrible experiance with my first horse. I was a big time rookie....no trainer, no vet check, no NOTHING. I heard about the horse, he was free, the next day he was at the place I would be boarding at. NO BODY told me this horse was dangerous they said I could game him no problem. Well his former owner who owned him before the guy who gave him to me showed up while I was brushing him one day and told me flat out "This horse will hurt me if I game him." Well no more than a week later that horse was Hell bent to kill me. Needless to say I was terrified of him and sold him and the worst part is I felt no remorse for it. She KNOWS this and what happened to me...she saw the pics of my injuries and knows what can happen. I learned my lesson and I'm trying to teach her....she just doesn't want to hear it. Maybe it will take something like what happened to me to scare her enough. I'm really scared for her. ~sigh~ I'm hoping her trainer gets back to me soon. I gave him my cell number so he can call me if he'd rather do that than email. It's a wait and see type thing now. But at least I cna say I did something.
         
        03-27-2011, 05:32 PM
      #43
    Foal
    Hi ,you could find out if the horse is a confirmed rear er ?or was it a one off,friend of mine broke her pelvis and legs on a youngster who did this just the once ,he was trying to get to a mare in front and she would not let him so uppppppppp he went and she pulled him on top of her , she never rode again ,so I would ask your friend to look into the horses history .good luck
         
        03-27-2011, 07:22 PM
      #44
    Trained
    Too many good ones out there for sale to bother with one that rears. Way too dangerous.
         
        03-27-2011, 07:50 PM
      #45
    Showing
    I'm wondering if she read the Black Stallion or similar horse book where a girl tames the wild beast. I broke a horse of rearing but I certainly didn't get on it. We set up situations to get a reaction if the horse couldn't have his own way. I harnessed him and drove him staying well out of harm's way. He got near his buddies and wanted to stay. I urged him on and up he went, only this time it was on my terms. I pulled him over onto his side. He came down with a pretty good thud. I made him get up and went on to the feed pan. Again he went up and again he came down. I spent two hours trying to piss him off to get him to rear but he was having none of it. The first time he didn't make the connection that rearing meant getting pulled over. The second time he made the connection. I tho't it might take a third but no. Later that day we saddled up, rode for two hours, and he was a complete gent. His owners and I stayed in touch over many years and until he died the horse never reared again.
         
        03-27-2011, 08:03 PM
      #46
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by furandfeather    
    hi ,you could find out if the horse is a confirmed rear er ?or was it a one off,friend of mine broke her pelvis and legs on a youngster who did this just the once ,he was trying to get to a mare in front and she would not let him so uppppppppp he went and she pulled him on top of her , she never rode again ,so I would ask your friend to look into the horses history .good luck
    By the sounds of all of the OP's posts, this horse IS a confirmed rearer. In her first post she said he was known as a 'serious rearer', and a few posts above, she has said that the sellers/owners of said horse have told her that it has always reared.
         
        03-27-2011, 08:38 PM
      #47
    Showing
    I wouldn't. Not no-way, not no-how. There are way too many good horses out there going for a pittance to the killers to deal with a horse that has already been confirmed as very dangerous. BUT, you said this girl is spoiled, all you can really do is voice your concerns to her and her parents. If they don't heed those warnings, then there isn't anything you can really do.

    Some folks just have to piss on that electric fence themselves before they learn it's hot.
         
        03-28-2011, 05:43 AM
      #48
    Yearling
    Yikes

    To the question "would you buy a horse that killed it's last rider" -- if it was some sort of tragic accident where the horse was not to blame, sure. Although I would feel awfully strange about it and it probably wouldn't be my first choice of horses.

    To the horse you described where it has a dangerous issue that has already claimed a life? Absolutely not in no way shape or form would I get near that horse or let anyone I loved get near it :(

    I hope your friend doesn't get hurt.
         
        03-28-2011, 01:43 PM
      #49
    Started
    Sure. I'd buy the horse and just keep it as a pet. It would be one less horse to end up in a feedlot, which is where it would probably end up eventually. There's no way in hell I'd ever try to ride the horse, though. Obviously.
         
        03-28-2011, 02:08 PM
      #50
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maura    
    I would say no, absolultely not. Rearing as a resistance is very hard to cure once learned, even by a professional with lots of time and patience. In another thread on this forum, I encouraged an experienced rider to take a chance on a horse that reared on mounting because I was fairly certain it was caused by previous bad handling.

    Here's my personal scale -

    Rearing out of pain or confusion - okay
    Stop the pain and confusion, build trust and good experience with the horse

    Small, rears out of resistance - borderline
    Horse needs to be ridden by a bold, assertive rider, focusing on *forward*

    Bigger rears, or established habit - no
    Requires a pro to fix, may always be a professional ride only

    Rears and flips - NO
    Probably not worth the risk of retraining

    Rears and flips more than once - Euthanize
    A horse that cares more about resisting that it's own safety will always and forever be a dangerous horse, including to handle on the ground
    i have to say im with maura on this almost 100%. I do use many non traditional methods such as animal communicators, massage, chiro, reiki and more to get to the root of issues. However the scale/description of rearing she gives above is a very good one.

    Some things can be corrected and retrained. Other things - such as a horse who is not afraid to injure itself when upset/mad/resistent etc., is one that I will not touch in a million years and would recommend euthanizing for safety reasons.

    In the specific case of your friend, a 16 year old imo should never have a horse that has reared so high as to go over backwards - regardless of outcome. The fact that the former rider passed away due to the accident reaffirms to me that this is an even bigger issue. I have heard of horses going over backwards as a freak accident (spooked, reared, stumbled, something like that). But a chronic rearer that has gone over is a bunch of red flags to me.

    Sounds like she may want the bragging rights of retraining a "killer horse" which sounds all sorts of cool when you're a teenager. The scary reality however is that there is a HUGE risk associated with that - one that includes a greater risk of death than retraining a horse with general issues, and so on.

    I hope the adults in your friend's life have better sense than to let her go through with it.
         

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