The Horse Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

You Can Lead someone to Water but You Can’t Make Them Think

6K views 56 replies 29 participants last post by  Foxhunter 
#1 ·
A former client of mine moved back to the barn recently and brought her 11 year old daughter and their horse out to the arena as I was finishing up with a student. As we were chatting, her daughter mounted their horse with her hair flying free and I said to the mother “You’re not making her wear a helmet anymore?”. She said “yeah, she has to wear it for the club events but I don’t make her do it here”, “it’s no big deal”.
I was appalled and said “yeah it’s no big deal until your child ends up in a wheelchair with traumatic brain damage for the rest of her life-once you’ve witnessed it, you won’t forget it”.
I know that I now that I have said my piece, there is nothing more I can do but I can’t stop myself from wondering why a parent would be so casual about helmet use. Is it because statistically she doesn’t believe is going to happen to her child-it always happens to someone else?
I’ve always required my students under 18 to wear a helmet with no exceptions even though I come from a generation who never wore helmets for anything (heck-there was no such thing as sunscreen-we baked in the sun on purpose!). One day I witnessed a bright, funny young girl (and a very good rider) fall off a horse without a helmet. She cracked her skull and now 20 years later, her parents still take care of her in her wheelchair. Needless to say, after the accident she was never again bright, funny or a good rider.
As a parent, could a person ever forgive themselves for giving in to a child’s desire to ride without a helmet and then something happens? Statistics are just statistics and are of no comfort when it’s your child that becomes 1 in a million.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
While I believe that an adult can make their own choice, I also think helmets should be mandatory for anyone under age 18. I am surprised the barn doesn't have a policy enforcing that.
Not much you can do otherwise, aside from insisting she wear one if you are giving her a lesson.
Actually, while you are an instructor, maybe you should set an example for your students and wear a helmet while riding at the barn? Kids definitely look up to their mentors :)
 
#13 ·
Actually, while you are an instructor, maybe you should set an example for your students and wear a helmet while riding at the barn? Kids definitely look up to their mentors :)
I just wanted to give a thumbs up to this.

Some instructors and some barns require that those under the age of 18 wear a helmet while taking lessons or riding. To "back that up" then the instructors and barn owners (adults) should be expected to wear helmets to set a good example for the kids.

My English riding instructor requires I wear a helmet when I ride (and I am well over 18). And she wears a helmet herself, even while she is just on the ground while I am riding.

When we were younger, my mother made us all wear helmets. And she got one for herself too.

So to the OP --> If you feel strongly that all children should wear helmets, then you should don one yourself to set a good example.
 
#3 ·
Unfortunately, it often takes either an injury or a close call before the alarm bells go off. If something happens to her daughter, no one will cry louder than the mother and she'll be looking for someone to blame. Perhaps the BO should be informed. In ON I believe it is the law to wear a helmet if under 18 plus boots with a defined heel of 1" or more.
 
#4 ·
I nearly always ride with a helmet. Sunday I was taking a well broke but frisky mare out for a ride in the field. I nearly didn't wear a helmet, but grabbed it at the last second. I haven't come off in years. Well, my frisky horse was being a brat, I tried to turn her on what looked like good footing and she hit a patch of mud under the grass, slid out and slammed down flat on her side. My whole right side is bruised and my helmet slammed into the ground, preventing what would surely have been a nasty concussion.

Any parent that does not insist on basic safety gear for their child is extremely foolish.
 
#5 ·
It's pure ignorance that allows a parent to act like that. You see the same parents letting their kids ride bikes without helmets, or they have helmets on with the chin strap unattached.

Any BO that doesn't have a very strong, clear policy in writing posted for all to see that all riders under 18 are required to wear helmets and all riders regardless of age are encouraged to wear them is asking for a lawsuit. As an attorney, I'd advise BOs to have extra helmets available for riders who don't bring their own, and never ignore a situation when they see a child without one on. It's the only way to protect your assets and the brains of kids whose parents are too foolish to do it for them.
 
#6 ·
Agree with all posts here. I never go without my helmet on any horse. I was not a fan of helmets in my early years, but fear of my own green broke horse's antics caused me to wear one at all times. Now I wear a helmet no matter what. My mother has only been riding for a couple years and always wears a helmet. We are the helmet wearing (and I am the english) freaks of our horse neighborhood and proud of it! We don't care what other people say about it-we always wear helmets. Needless to say, my local arena's royal court was discreetly unhappy with their state flag carrier's helmet wearing ways, although they said and pretended they were OK with it. I was the only one on a court of five girls (three of them riding hot insane rearing barrel horses) who wore a helmet. IMO, climbing on any horse, especially ones like they rode, without a helmet is asking for a death certificate.
 
#7 ·
ecasey-I just noticed that you live in Southern France. LUCKY!!! It must be so gorgeous! I want to live somewhere green like that instead of an endless dirt, sand, rock and cactus desert. Sorry for being OT!
 
#8 ·
ANOTHER "Anyone who doesn't wear a helmet is an idiot" thread?

If you want safety, don't ride horses. If you ride, you accept a certain amount of risk. How much? No one can quantify it because there are too many variables. If you jump because it is fun, or you ride bareback because it is fun, or if you ride where the ground is rocky and any fall can cripple or kill you because it is fun, then you are taking risks for the fun of it. If you allow you kid to do any of those things, you accept the risk of their dying...for the fun of riding!

I almost always wear a helmet, but I dislike people who call others idiots for making a different decision about how much risk to accept.

I know people who have ridden for 50+ years, often on green horses and in rough terrain, without helmets...and who did so without busting their heads. In fact, I know folks whose family has done so for generations without ever having a head injury.

There are studies that support the idea that we are at greater risk while working with horses while on the ground than we are in many forms of riding. I've hit the ground more times trying to calm a scared horse while I was on foot than I have from my spooky mare bolting, spinning or spooking. Yet how many of us insist on wearing a helmet any time we pick up a lead rope? How many parents insist their kids wear helmets any time they are in a corral or pasture?

"Statistics are just statistics and are of no comfort when it’s your child that becomes 1 in a million.
"

Yep! So don't ride. Don't go hiking in the desert - I once heard a rattle, and finally found the source coiled up between my feet! Don't ride motorcycles. I spent my adult life flying in jet fighters, strapped to an ejection seat - don't do that! Heck, I watched an F-4 explode in a ball of flame taking off out of George AFB, CA once, and then strapped in and took off the other runway!

Statistics are the only meaningful way to discuss risk. If the chance of injury is 1 in 1,000,000,000,000, it will still suck if your kid is that one...but no one can avoid that level of risk.
 
#18 ·
I find this an odd post coming from you bsms because I don't think I've ever seen a photograph of you on a horse where you aren't wearing a helmet?
I've had a head injury that would have been much less severe if I'd been wearing one so nothing would get me on a horse now without one
Apart from my own family or anyone riding one of my horses I really don't get involved with people's choices as far as helmets are concerned because it's their head, their brain, their risk, their problem if it gets damaged
However
I would never in a million years give reasons or excuses to try to illustrate or persuade anyone that wearing a helmet is a pointless exercise because if I convince them of that and they do end up with a head injury that might have been greatly reduced by wearing a helmet then I have been partly responsible for it.
 
#9 ·
I agree to some extent. I understand the barn owners need to protect themselves from a lawsuit, and I also understand that we have freedom of choice. I believe that kids should be required to wear helmets when riding until the age of 18. After that, legally, the barn owner is at very little risk of a lawsuit, so it's not their problem what they decide to do. I can easily see a barn owner being sued for not requiring helmets for minors. If your kid ended up being the one in a million, who would you most likely go after? The barn owner or the horse owner if the horse is owned by a boarder. It seems stupid, but you always have to look out for your own interests. We live in a very sue happy society now a days.
 
#10 ·
Well I guess I'm the idiot then...

I don't wear a helmet. I was not taught to ride with one, and I was 4 when I started lessons.

I do own a helmet. I took lessons later in life and it was mandated by the facility that all people wore them.

When I am riding my personal horse I do not wear one. Whenever I ride a strange horse or if I feel that my personal horse may act up I put the helmet on.

When I go with friends I make them wear a helmet always.

It's a double standard, yes. Yes, I understand the risk of riding. Yes I understand the choice I make whenever I mount without a helmet. Yes I accept any and all potential situations that may occur when riding a horse.

But in the end, it's my choice.
 
#11 ·
While I understand everyone's concerns about children wearing helmets I also feel that the drama and judgment get way overblown.

I come from rodeo country where the lead line classes have 18month old walking around barrels all the way up to 7, 8, 9 year olds running full speed in the event. None of these kids wear helmets. I feel no judgment toward their parents for this.

What I do feel is grateful that there are still families that spend the weekend with their kids and share their love of horses. I see happy kids and proud mom and dads. I see successful families who are raising their kids right. Its amazing.

Its ok to recognize that there is room for improvement but I think its important to take the good with the bad.
 
#12 ·
I don’t really care whether adults wear helmets or not, however as a parent myself I know that children are little bundles of emotion and have not been on this earth long enough to develop judgement .
This 11 year old I am talking about is bowing to peer pressure from the other kids in her riding group and her mother is going along with it.
I still believe that the parent is ulitimately responsiblefor the protection of them in any way possible until they are old enough to make rational decisions.
 
#15 ·
...I still believe that the parent is ulitimately responsiblefor the protection of them in any way possible until they are old enough to make rational decisions.
That is what the parent is doing. You dislike how the parent assess and handles the risk. That does not make the parent an idiot or irrational. Most of the people I've known who ride have ridden their entire lives without a head injury, and without anyone in their family injuring their head.

Do you complain about the irrational behavior of parents who let their kids learn to jump horses? Do you complain about parents who let their kids use English saddles, when Australian saddles have more safety features? Do you complain about parents who let their kids ride without body protectors, when a smashed back can cripple their kid for life? Do you complain about parents who let their kids climb trees? Do you complain about parents who let their kids ride dirt bikes?

After all, "Statistics are just statistics and are of no comfort when it’s your child that becomes 1 in a million."
 
#14 ·
The gal who posted the thread is aware of the dangers. She is just trying to understand why someone would risk a head injury when it could possibly be prevented by the use of a helmet. Everything in life has risk but we can't lock our kids up to keep them safe. There are mothers who can't say no to their kids because they want to be pals instead of having a parent - child relationship.
 
#16 ·
I never wore a helmet as a minor. I ran around through trails helmetless, no cell phone and sometimes no shoes, and usually by myself. I don't think it made my parents irresponsible or foolish, I just didn't. I never thought about minimizing risk when I was doing a whole lot of stupid things.Now, I always wear one on a client's horse, for liability reasons, but that's about it. Are helmets a good, safe idea? Of course. But it's my choice.

And it's up to the individual parents to make that call for their kids, though I think that property owners and instructors would be foolish if they didn't make helmets mandatory for minors in today's sue-happy world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bsms
#17 ·
While I think it's important to wear a helmet, unfortunately the helmet debate will be raging on for generations to come. Some people don't like wearing one, some people flip out every time they see somebody not wearing one and start hollering up and down. Honestly the best you can do is state your piece, and then if the person refuses to listen, it is on their heads (literally and figuratively) if they become that one in a million.

Unfortunately any sport runs the risk of injury. I think that a $50 helmet is cheap insurance against what could be a lifetime of medical costs and heartbreak. But I choose this for myself- I don't have the authority to choose it for other people.

To me, the importance is WHAT you are protecting. A traumatic brain injury can mean the difference between living a normal life and being a vegetable. You can heal from a broken leg/arm, cracked ribs, a bad fall- you might have lasting effects, but typically they are not going to change how life is lived. My brain is how I make my living and survive. I insure my car, my apartment, my belongings, so insuring that my brain is protected (so far as it can be, no safety method is 100%) is important to me.
 
#19 ·
I find this an odd post coming from you bsms because I don't think I've ever seen a photograph of you on a horse where you aren't wearing a helmet?
Its even odder because I don't think I have seen a post by him that didn't include a photograph of him and Mia. lol - im just teasing. ;)

Actually while I disagree with bsms on many other threads I thought the fact that he is a helmet-wearer but is a non-judgmental one was pretty right on! Its not a matter of what a person chooses to do but respecting others, no need to call be idiots who wont drink just because they make a different choice.
 
#20 ·
I always wear a helmet and I am non-judgmental too - however you will not see me posting anything that sounds as if I'm trying to justify other peoples decisions to not wear one by pointing out all the reasons why they shouldn't be bothered to protect their heads
As far as I'm concerned if someone doesn't wear a helmet its for no other reason than they don't want too and I respect their choice
 
#24 ·
No one can quantify the risk on any given ride. No one can quantify the risk on a future ride. But with statistics, you can see where the risks are greatest, and how effective certain measures are at reducing overall risks.

But no - for a given horse and a given rider on a given day, no one can give a hard number about the risk.
 
#23 ·
I have broken an arm, a leg, a tailbone, and several ribs playing on horses. So understand I know all well the risk involved in riding. I have also suffered a few concussions between HS, and Collegiate football (guess who was wearing a helmet....)

My daughter wears a helmet because she is 28mo, and as a parent I feel obligated to make her wear it. In 10yrs Im not sure how I will feel about it. I will say however, that though I have seen a few TBIs (Traumatic Brain Injury) related to horse falls, I worry more about a broken neck, and no helmet on the planet will stop that.

I would never give some one a hard time about wearing a helmet even though I do not, but at the same time I know all to well that most parents feel like they are doing an adequate job of raising their kids and sometimes they need to learn the hard way that S^!# happens.

All you can do is voice your opinion, and let it ride.....

Also..... If I were a barn manager/owner I would require helmets for anyone under 18. From a liability standpoint I feel like you would be a fool not to. but to call someone an idiot because their kid doesn't wear a helmet is silly.

Jim

Jim
 
#25 ·
For some reason this makes me think of motorcyclists debating helmets.

Both my Mom and Dad ride motorcycles. They are very safety conscious and always have protective gear.
Helmets are a good safety measure but is only part of what a person needs when riding.
A awesome, breathable, Teflon jacket saves a motorcyclists hide if the bike drops and they are sent sliding down the road. Thick blue jeans a must for this reason as well. Biker boots are designed to protect feet n ankles. Good gloves to protect hands.

I cringe seeing folks on bikes with loose tank shorts and flip flops.

Yeah it is their choice and yes they are playing with fire by thumbing their noses up at safety. The best us safety conscious folks can do is politely and respectfully explain our view at the same time respecting that it is their choice to do as they choose.

With kids involved it changes though. Kids do what is fun and are not grasping the consequences until after the fact. It is the responsibility of the adults in charge to make sure the kids are following safety when riding.

I agree with most of the posts. I also agree that it is rude to call someone an idiotic for having a different view even if it is dumbbell ad that just makes them shut u out.
Sorry for any misspell as I am on my ornery phone.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#27 ·
The people who avoided serious injury and a hospital visit because they were wearing a helmet don't appear on statistic lists therefore they are unreliable
The same goes for people who escaped injury because they were wearing a safety vest
Respecting someone's choice to not wear a helmet is one thing and I support that - but doing or saying anything to persuade them not to wear one IMO is irresponsible
 
#34 ·
...Basing any decision on the theory 'That it's never happened to me yet' is not very bright
Basing our behavior on the theory that "anything can happen to me" would prevent us from ever doing anything. I could be killed in a car crash when I drive later this afternoon to do volunteer work, but I think I will chance it. And I'll drive my Miata because it is fun, although my truck would protect me more.

Later, I hope to go for a ride. That could hurt me too. I'll wear a helmet, but skip a body protector. If I ride Mia, I will be a greater risk than if I ride Trooper...so why should I ever choose Mia over Trooper?

That is kind of the point. Just about everything we do has risk associated with it, and rewards. What constitutes a reward for one isn't a reward for another. I could go the rest of my life without touching a motorcycle and be happy. That would make my BIL miserable. But my BIL won't even enter a corral with horses because he thinks they are too dangerous.

I wear a helmet because it improves safety, and because it has no downside for me - I get no pleasure out of NOT wearing it! But some DO enjoy riding without a helmet. I don't know why, but I'm not going to call them idiots for enjoying something that I don't enjoy. My sister & BIL may take a motorcycle out for a 300+ mile ride this weekend...and call it fun! YGBSM! Make one mistake, and you can lose a leg, or your life! What is fun about that? But of course, they think the same of me when I get on a horse...:?
 
#31 ·
OP I've never heard of a barn not requiring people under 18 to wear helmets. I've always wore a helmet when I was under that age for liability reasons.

That being said, it's her child, her problem sadly. Where I'm from loads of kids ride without helmets, their parents know the risks and accept it. But honestly, why worry yourself over someone else? Just because their child doesn't have a helmet on does not make them bad or evil (or any person who doesn't wear a helmet), you can disagree but in the end it's not your problem, nor your decision.

I personally wear a helmet when taking lessons because I respect that the owner has a liability. I wear a helmet on certain horses and on some I don't, it's a personal preference for me depending on what I'm doing and the horse. My worst accident to date was a fractured spine, collar bone and hip and I was wearing a helmet. Not all accidents are preventable, that's a fact of life. My point is do I agree with a kid not wearing a helmet? No. Absolutely they should. Am I going to condemn the parents and people who don't use helmets? No their life, their body their actions. Not my business nor for me to judge.
 
#32 ·
Personally I wear a helmet, this will be the first year actually. Do I care if other people wear a helmet? Nope, it's your head.

My daughter will wear a helmet (she's only 6 days old so jumping the gun a bit lol) as long as I'm in control of her head. Do I care if other people's children wear a helmet? Nope, their choice.

Personally I feel for the $30 investment it's worth it if it might prevent something happening.

That being said I didn't wear a helmet before I had a husband/child. Having them made me rethink my own safety enough to take the precautionary measure.

It's your head, your choice (or your child's head) period. Do I concern myself with what you choose? Nope.
 
#35 ·
Those of you who don't wear helmets, do you wear seatbelts? If so, I don't see why. Same risk. Your head injury might be your fault or it might be the fault of someone else (something else), but the FACT is that wearing a helmet will protect your skull from most falls and not wearing one won't. Why gamble with your brain? Just because it looks cooler? You've only got one, you know. Once you damage that one, it's all over.
 
#39 ·
I actually don't wear a seatbelt most of the time. I live in the only state that doesn't have a seatbelt law (there is only one for minors.) A lot of people I know here don't wear them. To me, this thread isn't about whether or not people should wear helmets, it's about whether minors should wear them. I don't have kids, so I don't really feel that I can offer any opinion except that an instructor or property owner would be foolish not to insist on a helmet rule for minors. On their own property and on their own horses, it becomes the parent's call.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top