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Red ribbon for Showmanship & Halter? Yes, No?

This is a discussion on Red ribbon for Showmanship & Halter? Yes, No? within the Horse Showmanship forums, part of the Showing Horses category

     
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        06-24-2011, 12:19 PM
      #21
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by equiniphile    
    Are you aware that horses are often times lined up head-to-tail in halter classes to let the judge see every horse from the side at once? What do you do when this happens; walk up to the judge and tell him you can't line up like the rest, or take a chance and let another horse get kicked?

    Also, on the note of not teaching non-kicking manners because riders are supposed to keep horses away from other horses' backends. That is like saying that because drivers are supposed to stop at stop signs, you should never look both ways.
    Well, I would ask the judge if I could be at the back, if I still had my kicker, and tell them WHY I wanted to be at the back. Pretty sure most judges, if not all, would be more than willing to accommodate in the interest of safety. Saying you shouldn't show a horse because it MIGHT kick is the same thing as saying no horse should be shown IMO as any horse might kick and it's not JUST the owner of the kicker's responsibility to make sure nothing happens. Who here LIKES having someone ride their horse's butt? JMO, but if it's not possible to warm up with at least one horse length between each horse in every direction, then there are too many horses in the warm-up area, and it's just not safe. You'd blame the organiser (here in aus at least) if there was a collision. "Oh, but they didn't provide enough room to warm up safely, it must be their fault!" - so WHY NOT apply the same thing to kicking?

    I'm not saying that you shouldn't at least TRY to train your horse not to kick, but let's face it, it's something that they DO, so it's safer to assume that every horse kicks. I know that the assumption that my old horse didn't (because I'd told them he wasn't a kicker, because he'd never kicked before), actually CAUSED him to become one. And he was real bad, he would swing around and plant a hoof on any horse that came within range in any direction. Took a skilled rider to keep him from doing it, and there was nothing you could do to teach him not to try. He had issues and was very aggressive with other horses by the end. There was NOTHING you could possibly do that would stop that horse from attacking other horses. If he wanted to, he was going to, unless the person riding him had 50 years of experience and was wearing spurs to keep him from spinning around. I'm not 50, so obviously I don't have that kind of experience, and I don't wear spurs.

    I guess I see both sides here - the owner of the kicker (CAUSED by horses up his ass might I add), and the owner of the non-kicker who hates kickers. I've been kicked before by a horse aiming for the pony I was riding - caught my foot and nearly broke it. Am I lucky because my horses have never been lamed by a kick? Maybe. Or maybe I'm SMART because I don't let other people's horses get that close.
         
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        06-24-2011, 01:15 PM
      #22
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blue eyed pony    
    Well, I would ask the judge if I could be at the back, if I still had my kicker, and tell them WHY I wanted to be at the back. Pretty sure most judges, if not all, would be more than willing to accommodate in the interest of safety.
    Did you know how much trouble you could be in by approaching a judge without going to the steward first?
         
        06-24-2011, 04:08 PM
      #23
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blue eyed pony    
    Well, I would ask the judge if I could be at the back, if I still had my kicker, and tell them WHY I wanted to be at the back. Pretty sure most judges, if not all, would be more than willing to accommodate in the interest of safety.
    You'd be dumped right down the line anyway because you told the judge your horse has a very serious VICE. Kicking is a vice. Also judges don't like having kickers in the ring. SO yes you'd be accomodated but it would seriously damage your placings, infact i've seen judges ask people with kickers to leave the ring as he wouldnt judge them

    Quote:
    he was real bad, he would swing around and plant a hoof on any horse that came within range in any direction. Took a skilled rider to keep him from doing it, and there was nothing you could do to teach him not to try. He had issues and was very aggressive with other horses by the end. There was NOTHING you could possibly do that would stop that horse from attacking other horses. If he wanted to, he was going to, unless the person riding him had 50 years of experience and was wearing spurs to keep him from spinning around. I'm not 50, so obviously I don't have that kind of experience, and I don't wear spurs.
    Then that horse should never have been in a show situation where it might kick. Rings are tight, warm ups are crowded, working in open order can cause situations if a horse spooks or one moment of rider innattention can lead to getting a tad too close. Infact anything that is spinning and kicking needs serious remedial work and a vet check for hormone levels. Infact I personaly would be inclined to have a very serious kicker PTS for my own safety and the safety of everyone around me.

    I don't think my lad has it in him to kick. He has had horses up his arse in inhand classes, he is only just turnng 4 and yet he has never kicked out. Never even thought about it. He has had dogs roll into his back legs, had cars go past inches from his legs (tied up in the yard whilst mum brought the shopping in) and horses pass his back end with inches from him in a narrow ally in temporary stabling (at a show) never once has he even thought about it.
    Niether of my old lads have ever kicked out at a show (and yes i've had idiots canter into them). My arab was stallionish (gelded as a 9 yr old and used as a stud before that) and he never thought about it either.

    Infact the only horse I have ever had that thought about kicking out or did so was Stan, and only ever the one time when that silly girl repeatedly used his back end as a break and then the pony lashed out at him. He never did it again.

    Sort your horses manners out BEFORE the show, it is all part of preparing properly
         
        06-26-2011, 06:06 PM
      #24
    Weanling
    The horse I have is a rescued horse who as literally been through heck and back. She not only kicks but rears. I don't have a choice on whether I show or not.

    If I don't show I am not allowed to have a horse.
         
        06-27-2011, 03:19 PM
      #25
    Green Broke
    Showing a horse that is badly behaved only reflects badly upon the rider and the horse.
    A horse can get a reputation as a kicker or a rearer and then no one will touch it when it comes to selling it.
         
        06-27-2011, 10:23 PM
      #26
    Super Moderator
    Anytime you are RIDING a horse in the show ring that kicks you should have a red ribbon on it's tail. If you are in a local level show then for showmanship and halter it is probably ok to include the ribbon. I have never seen the red ribbon placed on the tails of halter horses in the shows I go to and I have seen some NASTY kickers that AIM for people.
         
        06-27-2011, 10:52 PM
      #27
    Green Broke
    For the mare I'm riding currently (we're working on the kicking, she's actually coming along very well IMO), I put the ribbon on when she gets off the trailer and don't take it off until we untack and leave. I only plan on taking her to the local shows, but last year at Hookstown I believe it was on from the time she left the stall in the morning and only taken off after her last class and back into the stall.
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        07-18-2011, 01:48 PM
      #28
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eclipse295    
    The horse I have is a rescued horse who as literally been through heck and back. She not only kicks but rears. I don't have a choice on whether I show or not.

    If I don't show I am not allowed to have a horse.
    I don't mean to sound rude but if you don't have a choice to show or keep a dangerous horse then get rid of the horse. I had a horse that reared all the time and I NEVER took it to a show. He was dangerous so I got rid of him to a family that knew all of his vices- I'm all for full disclosure. Bottom line is do you want to risk your life or someone elses life just to keep your horse and maybe-get a ribbon. Sell this horse and get one that is more suited to your abilities and skill level.

    Who is pushing you to show a dangerous horse? If it is your parents do they know how dangerous it can be? I loved that horse that reared he was my baby and it started out small little hops then it got to full blown falling over on top of me- like I was literally crushed under him. If what you are saying is true please get rid of this horse or spend the money to have a professional work with him on his habits. You or your horse might die if this goes uncorrected.
         
        07-21-2011, 01:43 AM
      #29
    Started
    The OP asked about halter & showmanship.While yes I have seen ribbons on riders I have yet to see one on a horse in hand. I personally would not be showing a known kicker. That said if you are going to go ahead anyway.. showing halter remove yourself from any crowded hitching rings & go in just as your class is called.Be watchful of your competitors,tell them to keep there distance/out of your space as your horse is known to kick.As a fellow exhibitor I would appreciate the warning.In halter you generally line up head to tail so ensure the horse behind you keeps its distance.Besides watching for your fellow exhibitors you should be ever attentive to your horse & his/her non verbals & assure there attention is always on you.
    In showmanship you are exhibiting the horse alone in the ring doing a pattern so at that point other horses shouldn't be an issue just in line up after awaiting placings.
    When I showed showmanship my coach always said when she has that chain on she is at work until you let her know she can relax & chill.Any movement on my part was a cue for her,her focus was always on me.A horse that is working should do just that & have their attention on you.If you let your guard down & allow them to do there thing or give them mix signals that is when they will do what comes to them & often not what you want or your fellow exhibitors especially when it comes in the form of kicking.
    I do remember being in a crowded hitching ring awaiting halter class.There was this one mare that the handler had her as seperated from the others the best he could in the crowded environment,he had no problem telling people to mind her space as she was moody/in heat & may lash out.He was mindful of her demenor & had no problem telling people to mind her space & people respected that.
    As for the ribbon in the tail I think many judges would count that warning of a vice & look down on it as far as placing goes,particularily in showmanship!!
    Too many things against you IMO,#1 the welfare of your fellow exhibitors & their horse & if you choose to go the ribbon route I think that won't win any impressions with judges either.Another thing to think about,A riding horse that kicks out another horse is generally going to take the blow... an in hand class if your horse kicks out there is even more risk that a person will be one that is in the line of fire.
    IMO For the sake of all involved,leaving your horse at home is the best idea....
         
        08-04-2011, 12:48 PM
      #30
    Foal
    Personally I would put a red ribbon for riding and showmanship classes
         

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