How to beat fancier horses...? - Page 2

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How to beat fancier horses...?

This is a discussion on How to beat fancier horses...? within the Horse Shows forums, part of the Showing Horses category

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    07-09-2012, 10:12 PM
Also, to clear up some confusion, Pi isn't my horse. He is owned by my coach, but I show and lease him. He has a lead change and learned one when he was being trained, but he is a lesson horse in his lower teens and is more often ridden by younger kids who haven't learned flying changes, so he has pretty much forgotten how to do a change and stay balanced in the process. My plan is: when I hack him, I will just re-work him through flying changes so he is more comfortable with them, practice them until he is balanced and steady through them, then try and apply them in courses. I was also talking to one of my friends who rides, and she said once, in a lesson, she got pi to do a flying change during a course, and to do it, she sat up, looked ahead, and pulled on the outside rein until he did it. As in pulling her outside elbow back to her thigh. Pi was too busy with lessons today for me to hack him, and will probably be too busy on thursday, but I am keeping my fingers crossed for friday, since pretty much the only lessons that day are privates for riders that go to the rated shows. And Kayty, I understand your point that swapping only the front feet is bad, but he isn't green and knows how to change, he just needs more balance and regular work on his changes. I won't mind if he isn't balanced or confident enough to do the full change on his first day trying, but like whenever you learn or re-learn something, his balance will improve with practice, and I will expect a full change by the end of our second or third hack, it depends. If he is still having issues after that, I will set up a pole on the diagonal, I have seen videos of horses schooling lead changes over poles.
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    07-09-2012, 10:42 PM
Green or not - I always demand a clean change. Sometimes you'll get a horse change a little late behind, that's ok if they swap leads and find balance - but you keep riding and asking for the hind legs to change, not just settle for the front legs, which will throw the horse wildly out of balance and end up making him nervous to change at all.

I'd say the person that got him to change, swapped her weight and shifted her legs to ask for the change. Sitting up and pulling on one rein isn't going to do it unless you want a terribly unbalanced change.

Please, get lessons on how to ride changes before you start trying to unbalance the horse enough to fall into a change. That is how you un-do a horse's training.
jody111 and themacpack like this.
    07-09-2012, 10:42 PM
If you can't get the changes down solid by the show, then I would suggest working on getting him to land on the correct lead. It's pretty simple really. Just ask for a bend, in the direction you're wanting to go, over the jump. The same way you'd ask him to pick up the canter from a slower gate. You don't want/need to make any huge movements. As long as he's not sticky with either lead, subtle cues should have him landing on the correct lead. Then you won't even have to worry about the lead changes :)
Mackieb likes this.
    07-09-2012, 10:54 PM
Awww no pull the rein to get it and no front change only. That worse, ugly and basically wrong!!! Put down poles to get it, do simple changes down the diagonal with 6 trot strides the. 5,4,3,2,1 that's how many people teach it. Or set a pole across the diagonal and ask it there. You should care that the horse is balanced and you do not want to get a horse to start cross cantering. If you where on my horse and you started to do that I would pull you off of him as fast as I could ( I have a horse on a lease). And if I saw someone yanking the face to get the lead I would have made them get off right there. She was probably using her leg but how you described the reins ... Yah ... No. You won't do well in a hunter class by doing that and you will do WORSE by cross cantering. Didn't you want to do better against the other horses?

There are right ways and wrong ways and honestly if it's a lesson horse and no one else will keep up the work you may have a hard time keeping the horse doing the changes. Another poster said get it over the jump, try that.
Kayty and Mackieb like this.
    07-10-2012, 05:20 PM
He is actually pretty cute
    07-10-2012, 09:47 PM
Ok, thanks everyone for your advice on lead changes! My new plan is: try and work on balanced FULL changes without yanking on pi's face, and use poles to help. If it turns out that he can't get a balanced change without the help of my trainer, I will just work on getting him to land his leads :) Now, to get the thread back on topic... any more advice and critique on how to "overcome our underdog status"? Thanks!
    07-10-2012, 09:52 PM
Who cares if you win or not???!!! Seriously, it does not matter in the least.
If you don't have changes, you can't expect to go out and beat horses that have them - fancy and expensive or not, the horse that has the best training and the most tactful rider is going to place over one who does not. Just go out, do your best, and that gives you a benchmark to improve on for next time.

If you go out with the mindset that you're the underdog and its all so unfair that the others have got big, fancy horses, then I assure you that you won't enjoy yourself.
Mckellar and enh817 like this.
    07-12-2012, 05:39 PM
You know what? I'm in the same position. My Quarter Horse-that-looks-like-a-Thoroughbred has only had one year solid jumping experience. He doesn't do flying leads yet. He hasn't ever been to a jumping show, and he as sure as heck isn't a fancy horse.

My plan? Just do the best we can! Rusty has improved so drastically that I will accept him as he is - simple leads and all! A horse show is for you to show off what you've learned and to have fun and meet new people - not to win. Getting ribbons is nice, but the experience and goal-reaching will be more fulfilling in the end. Yeah, there's going to be tons of horses that do auto changes, jump every jump exactly square, riders who could have their eyes shut the entire time...but can most of them honestly say that they're having fun just sitting back not doing anything? Did any of them train their own horse to jump?

There's going to be elegant Thoroughbreds and Warmbloods that will never miss a beat. And then there's going to be me and Rusty, probably doing simple leads and flying over the fences - maybe even the arena fence accidentally! Lol he'll jump just about anything. But we've come so far, my riding and his manners, and that should be enough of an achievement itself.
Kayty likes this.
    07-12-2012, 09:32 PM
Not to get extreamly off topic, but to the last post... Riders who have horses do auto changes, get perfect distances , just sit there and do nothing... Ever consider they are just good riders? Yes there are young young kids on amazing point and shoot horses but 99% of the time those winning riders deserve to win because they can ride and make it look effortless ... Just a thought!
Kayty and gypsygirl like this.
    07-12-2012, 10:01 PM
You seem to be contradicting yourself slightly.

You're 13 of course you want ribbons. But you're riding a partial lease horse who's not perfectly suited to your chosen dicipline. Will the flashy 10000 pro trained horse with an equal rider do better? Yes 90% of the time.

You and Pi have one job. Go out there ride as well as you can that day. And have FUN.

I'd not be trying the flying change on your own it's quite complicated to get right I'm confused why your trainer won't teach them to you.

Now an anecdote

I'm not an expert on hunters (not alot of it in aus) but I can relate. I fox hunt on an almost 15h qh mare and when the master found out I was bringing her his only question was 'can it jump?'

Pfft call her the pocket rocket.

I didn't care she wasn't the 'nicest' horse out there she looked after me and I had fun! I'll be entering the hunter show in August and NOT be placing. But I'll get to go out and compete and without having unrealistic expectations I'll enjoy myself.
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