Which bit is "better?"
 
 

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Which bit is "better?"

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  • Which bit is better for a horse
  • Which is better a copper or metal horse bit

 
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    01-03-2011, 07:31 PM
  #1
Weanling
Which bit is "better?"

If one had to choose a twisted wire bit, which one would be better? The horse is still being trained but is very hard mouthed and the rider has soft hands but still uses a little contact. Thank you!


Http://www.amazon.com/Kelly-Silver-Copper-Twisted-Roller/dp/B002HI5AIU/ref=sr_1_28?ie=UTF8&qid=1294100953&sr=8-28
Or
http://cgi.ebay.com/FES-Twisted-Wire-Dee-Snaffle-Bit-5-1-2-Mouth-08940_W0QQitemZ390276582491QQcategoryZ16244QQcmdZV iewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26 itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D1%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3 D6117731740781949678

     
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    01-03-2011, 08:00 PM
  #2
Super Moderator
Link number two is to the BBC newspage. Didn't see any bit there.
You are going to get alot of negative feedback about any twisted wire bit.

It is true that making a horse have a soft mouth again is not about the bit but about the remouthing training. You have to reeducate the horse to what the bit / reins mean.
     
    01-03-2011, 08:40 PM
  #3
Weanling
[QUOTE=Puddintat;875048]If one had to choose a twisted wire bit, which one would be better? The horse is still being trained but is very hard mouthed and the rider has soft hands but still uses a little contact. Thank you!


Http://www.amazon.com/Kelly-Silver-Copper-Twisted-Roller/dp/B002HI5AIU/ref=sr_1_28?ie=UTF8&qid=1294100953&sr=8-28
Or

http://cgi.ebay.com/FES-Twisted-Wire...53364460318801
     
    01-03-2011, 08:42 PM
  #4
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
Link number two is to the BBC newspage. Didn't see any bit there.
You are going to get alot of negative feedback about any twisted wire bit.

It is true that making a horse have a soft mouth again is not about the bit but about the remouthing training. You have to reeducate the horse to what the bit / reins mean.

Thanx, tiny, I figured that. I've got my big girl armour on. Just trying to learn so I thought I'd ask. (fixed the link)
     
    01-03-2011, 09:11 PM
  #5
Super Moderator
value of rope reins

I like that, "big girl armor". That's the spirit!
Well, of the two, I prefer the first one. I don't really like having those loops that you are supposed to put the cheek piece and /or the rein in. They say that it stabilized the bit more. I find it just makes the cheek piece gap.

I ride mostly western these days, and I really just use a plain snaffle (eggbut) or french link loose ring (kk). I do have a full cheek, too.
I really like using heavy rope reins and slobber straps. It is not just about looks, though I have come to think of them as cool looking. What is really the point of the heavy rein/slobber strap is that the feel can be transmitted down the heavy rope rein quicker. This give the horse a "prewarning" that the bit is about to come into play. The slobber strap magnifies this too, because as the rider lifts the rein, the slobber strap, being kind of stiff, has almost some resistance when it slides on the metal bit. The horse can feel that before any change in the angle of the bit occurs. My horse can feel me just slide my hand down the rope rein and lift it. There is still drape in the rein, but since I lifted the rein upward, the slobber strap slid on the bit ring and the horse feels a change. He gets ready. I stiffen my body, close my hand on the rein, apply a little pressure and he stops. I literally DROP the rope rein. It provides rapid and marked release.
That is why I like the heavy rope reins. I enclose a picture of Mac's set up.


new bridle 009.jpg
     
    01-03-2011, 09:17 PM
  #6
Weanling
Thank you. I may have to look into that. I'm new to horses so I'm learning all sorts of things. Ever since I've had Dancer he's been really hardmouthed, which I'm sure is from his previous life as a hack pony. I really want to find something that will work for us both and won't hurt him. My trainer recommended a twisted wire as long as it was pretty thick (I'm currently using an eggbutt snaffle which he doesn't always listen to.) We tried a twisted wire and a type of curb port today and he responded to the twisted wire really well. I barely had to place any pressure. We also talked about using slobber straps and a mecate rein. Maybe I can just try the slobber straps and mecate first? Maybe even a full cheek snaffle will help? Even though I ride western I use a little contact mostly because I had previous english lessons. Anywho..my trainer said the twisted wire isn't for everyone but she thinks he needs it and I won't be too heavy handed to use it.
     
    01-03-2011, 09:20 PM
  #7
Showing
Neither bit is "better," in my opinion.. there is an excellent thread going on right now actually that's a healthy discussion about harsh bits, it's a good read!
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tack-equipment/so-called-harsh-bits-74209/


"ideally the bit isn't used for control, it's a means for subtle communication; a horse should be ridden mostly off of seat and leg, no matter the discipline. Western horses work off of contact, whereas it is imperative for English horses to accept and work INTO contact.
A horse *should* ideally be ridden back to front - if the horse isn't accepting the bit or isn't responsive to the bit, or doesn't respect the bit... it isn't a bit problem; it's a training hole that needs to be fixed. This is me speaking from experience. Do they soften up a horse's mouth? Nope, the horse starts evading the bit by dropping behind the bit. Do they make a horse respect the bit? Kinda, in a backwards fashion; the horse learns that bit=pain, and starts evading it.

Communication with the horse starts with the seat and legs, most of your riding should stem from the seat and legs. Finesse does not come from pain or a harsh bit, it comes from a horse that's been properly trained to work back to front, and a rider who knows how to ride back to front - and such a horse/rider pair knows no need for a twisted wire or mule bit. "
     
    01-03-2011, 09:25 PM
  #8
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
I like that, "big girl armor". That's the spirit!
Well, of the two, I prefer the first one. I don't really like having those loops that you are supposed to put the cheek piece and /or the rein in. They say that it stabilized the bit more. I find it just makes the cheek piece gap.

I ride mostly western these days, and I really just use a plain snaffle (eggbut) or french link loose ring (kk). I do have a full cheek, too.
I really like using heavy rope reins and slobber straps. It is not just about looks, though I have come to think of them as cool looking. What is really the point of the heavy rein/slobber strap is that the feel can be transmitted down the heavy rope rein quicker. This give the horse a "prewarning" that the bit is about to come into play. The slobber strap magnifies this too, because as the rider lifts the rein, the slobber strap, being kind of stiff, has almost some resistance when it slides on the metal bit. The horse can feel that before any change in the angle of the bit occurs. My horse can feel me just slide my hand down the rope rein and lift it. There is still drape in the rein, but since I lifted the rein upward, the slobber strap slid on the bit ring and the horse feels a change. He gets ready. I stiffen my body, close my hand on the rein, apply a little pressure and he stops. I literally DROP the rope rein. It provides rapid and marked release.
That is why I like the heavy rope reins. I enclose a picture of Mac's set up.


Attachment 51030
Does your horse also have a curb strap? Does that help?
     
    01-03-2011, 09:59 PM
  #9
Super Moderator
That is a chin strap. It has no leverage effect. I just sits there and does nothing unless I really pull the bit on one side it will prevent the bit from sliding though his mouth. It is very loose.
     
    01-03-2011, 10:09 PM
  #10
Super Moderator
While I agree that a horse not repsonsive to the bit exhibits a hole in its' training, if it is already hard in the mouth, just riding it from back to front may not change its' relationship to the bit and the meaning of the rein.
I personally don't think it's the end of the world to use the twisted wire bit for careful and limited retraining. When remouthing a hard horse, it is really a matter of applying pressure on the rein (one at atime to start with) getting the desired response and rewarding by stopping the pressure. It might have to be a lot of pressure to begin with, if the horse has no response to it because he doesn't remember what it means or he's been taught to ignore the bit long enough and the pressure will go away.
You have to not let the pressure go away until you get him to give. Then YOU give. You want to work toward being really giving, but you must always remember that the horse gives first. He EARNS the release. The more clear the relationship between him doing something and him earning a release, the quicker he will learn this and make it his normal way of going.

Your horse probably didnt' earn enough rewards so he saw no point in giving to the bit. And maybe he was ridden on endless, unchanging contact. He might hvae become defensive about it and try to pull the reins out of the riders hands. Is that what you mean when you say he is hard mouthed?

If you start with having him give to pressure and having him earn big releases he will see that rein contact is not a hopeless condition but that he can create release by giving. It's a contract between the two of you, and you had darn well remember to hold up your end; Don't give until he does and never forget to give when he does.
     

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