Thanks. Those bits acually lok exactly like I was picturing, the different variations that Im trying to get so I can try and test them. Yes, you are probably right about the training issue more than a bit issue, but the bit, from what I understand, is more of a starting bit, used for green horses and horses moving from a snaffle bit to a curb bit/shank bit. I originally got my bit for my other gelding, who at the time was 10 and never trained in western, but showed all the great strides and temperament, and he responded well, though he relied solely on my seat and legs. He was one of those horses you could lope around on with no hands and he would be set in frame and speed. Where as my new horse, competition of 2 years (sadly my first boy had to be put down)is a horse that is just fresh from his snaffle bit years, with limited experience for an 8 year old. WHo plays with his bit and tounge over, bitting reins etc. SO yes, probably more training would help, and I always will be training, I just think a different, more advanced bit would be the best option, to help remove some of the bit related antics he does, as well as provide me with more of an edge when I do use my reins. I feel like I have to pull him with the reins to stop, turning is easy, neck reining. And from what I understand, a straighter shank allows for a more sensitive bit realease and hold action. (word eludes me) but I mean, the amount of pressure and rein I pick up when I stop, rein back or infact hold during classes etc. At present I am constantly changing the length, from long to shorter, to one rein half halts. WHich work, but don't look right. As my bit is a normal jointed mouthpiece, it also has a snapping action, and works as one, rather than two reins. Hopfully I can get some bits to test and practice with. But the samples given have helped, so know atleast I have some images to reference to.