Western trained horses are generally started in either a simple snaffle (loose ring, D-ring, full cheek, etc) or a bosal type hackamore. It isn’t until later in their training that bits with shanks and leverage are introduced. It is never a good idea to start a young horse in a bit with any type of leverage not only because of the amplified power they offer, but because they can be incredibly confusing and overwhelming to a young horse. Not only do they act on the mouth of the horse, but they also put pressure on the poll and chin which can encourage breaking at the poll and a more vertical headset in the prepared horse but can cause head tossing and evading in the unprepared horse.
Any bit with shanks that uses leverage on the horse is a fairly advanced piece of equipment and should never be used on a green horse until they have at least the basics of neck reining, leg cues, and are solid with stopping and turning at all gaits. Upping the power with a curb bit will not correct any training gaps; actually, it will likely make them worse.
Also, let me dispel the rumor right now about the American Tom Thumb bit. THIS IS NOT A SNAFFLE BIT AND IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR STARTING A GREEN HORSE IN.
The basics of leverage and the pressure ratio: A true snaffle bit has a 1:1 pressure ratio, meaning that for each ounce of pressure you exert on the reins, the horse feels one ounce in his mouth. A true snaffle bit does not have shanks of any length. Shanks and a curb strap changes that ratio to create more pressure in the mouth with less on the reins. The ratio of a normal curb bit can be determined by measuring the length of the shank and the length of the purchase. Not to get all mathematical on you but if you measure the length of the shank and get, let’s say, 4; then measure the purchase and get 1, then that particular bit has a pressure ratio of 1:4, meaning that for every 1 ounce you exert on the reins, the horse feels 4 ounces in his mouth.
A change in the ratio of purchase to shank also varies how the bit works and where it puts the most pressure. A bit with a short purchase and a long shank will put the majority of the pressure on the horse’s bars with only a little bit on the poll. A bit with a longer purchase to a shorter shank will put more pressure on the poll and less on the bars. Bits with long purchases are generally called "lifter" bits as they encourage a horse to break at the poll, round their neck, and lift their shoulders.
Shanks: Length
Short shanks: On a curb bit, the shorter the shanks are, generally speaking, the milder the bit will be. Shorter shanks means that the rein cue is magnified less than with long shanks but more than with a snaffle bit. If you are just stepping up into the curb bit world from a snaffle, a short shanked bit with a nice amount of sweep (will be discussed in a minute) is the best option to start with.
Long Shanks:Generally speaking, the longer the shanks on a curb bit, the more severe it is because it takes less rein pressure to put a large amount of pressure on the mouth. These bits are for the more advanced horse/rider pair. They are most commonly seen in the Western Pleasure and Reining arenas because they require a much smaller motion than a bit with short shanks to relay the same cue.
Shanks: Angle The angle of the shank can be determined by looking at the bit from the side, or in the case of a swivel shanked bit, with the shank turned out flat. If you draw a line from the middle of the bridle ring, straight down through the middle of the mouthpiece, and continue it straight down level with the end of the shank, that will show you how straight your shanks are. The farther away your rein rings are from the line, the more swept back your shanks are. The actual shape of the shanks has no bearing on this either. There are simple shanks like the one pictured below/left and then there are others like the cavalry shanks that are very curvy and ornate like the one pictured below/right. The only thing that changes the angle of the sweep is the distance of the rein rings from the purchase line.
Straight Shanks: The straighter the shanks on a bit, the less warning the horse gets before the action of the bit is engaged because it takes less rein movement to move the shanks. This, in turn, usually makes for a slightly harsher bit because there is no build to full pressure, it just happens almost instantly.
Swept back shank: On a bit with a more swept back shank, there is more warning to the horse before the action of the bit is engaged because you have to pick up more rein to contact the bit. On a well trained horse, they will feel the weight of the reins being moved and respond before the bit ever has a chance to move in the mouth. These are also commonly called a “grazing bit” because the swept back shanks allow the horse to graze while still wearing the bit.
Swivel Shanks: Swivel shanked bits are bits that have a joint where the mouthpiece meets the cheek that allows the entire cheek piece to swivel independently from the rest of the bit. Bits like this often will allow a more sensitive feel for both horse and rider due to the mobility of the shanks. Bits like this also allow for a one rein stop in case of emergency.
Solid shank bits: Bits with a solid or immobile shank are one of the most common types of western bits sold. They are a relatively simple bit that is designed for the horse that neck reins well. They do not allow for one rein correction because the solid shanks will change the position of the entire bit on the horse’s head if one rein is used. There is not quite as much feel in a solid shank as there is in a loose shank.
I use whatever my trainer uses. She has some other bits but I have not idea what they are. My best bet is to just buy one when I move my horse. Posted via Mobile Device
Awesome information but before this thread gets moved, I have a quick question. I too ride with a Tom Thumb, only because that's what my horse's previous owner rode with. But I don't think it's the best for my horse now and what I do.
I ride with both hands when I'm excercising/schooling on the property, but when I hit the trails I ride with one hand, on a loose rein. I've been interested in a 'western dressage' program that is starting up in my area, so I ride with more contact then I used to. Because of this, I'm trying to find a good, all around bit for this kind of work, and one that I can use on the trails as well. I've never really been happy with the Tom Thumb...just couldn't come up with a good alternative. And my horse is a 9 year old well broke gelding, who has been very forgiving of the TT.
Seems like most of the Western dressage I've seen is done in a snaffle bit of sorts, so you can ride on contact. Generally a regular loose-ring snaffle. If you're going to go with a curb, and you'll be doing a lot of contact and two-handing, I'd look into a Myler or Billy Allen. Does your WD club have bit regulations, though?
Thanks for your suggestions. I don't belong to a club and I'm not necessarily going to be showing, but the coach I'm riding with right now, who specializes in Western Dressage, is not a fan of TT's, and for the kind of work that I'm doing, it makes sense.
I'm thinking that a Billy Allen with shorter, swivel shanks but be the best solution?
Everything swivels and you can direct rein when needed without the confusion I see in the jointed curb bits. I find it very soft and very communicative. AND it's not expensive. win win
Everything swivels and you can direct rein when needed without the confusion I see in the jointed curb bits. I find it very soft and very communicative. AND it's not expensive. win win
natisha, good to know I'm not alone. I bought one, loved it so much i recommended it to a friend. I now have 3 on headstalls, my friend has 2 and my DIL has 2 for their 2 horses as well.
Thanks for all the responses. I hope that you will bear with another question or two! How would the Francois Gauthier Futurity bit compare to a Billy Allen? My horse is a finished 9 yr. old gelding, and I've always used TT's, and never explored my options. This is a wonderful education for me!
A Billy Allen is a mouth piece, not a whole bit. Well that's my understanding. Differences I can't tell you other than look at them both closely and compare other things like purchase, shank length etc. I would say this is more like some mylers as they also have lots of independent actions. BA's imo are more like a 3piece mouth but the middle is a fatish roller. So could be very similar feel. I like those too, only have one that i'd call a BA style and it's on a Kimberwick that I loved using before I found these..
I'm off to haul a silly lil mini with a bellyache to the doc.
A Billy Allen is a mouth piece, not a whole bit. Well that's my understanding. Differences I can't tell you other than look at them both closely and compare other things like purchase, shank length etc. I would say this is more like some mylers as they also have lots of independent actions. BA's imo are more like a 3piece mouth but the middle is a fatish roller. So could be very similar feel. I like those too, only have one that i'd call a BA style and it's on a Kimberwick that I loved using before I found these..
I'm off to haul a silly lil mini with a bellyache to the doc.
Thank you Natisha, It seems to have resolved. Maybe from the trailer ride to the vet or possibly she is having an odd allergic reaction as her breathing was pretty heavy. My other pony had a similar issue a few years ago tho he is fine now. Not sure what they may be getting into but they are shut in the arena/barn for the time being so I can keep an eye on this.
Okay, this is probably a dumb question, but I'm still fairly new to horses, so just thought I'd ask:
I bought this bit from Myler
My question is, do you use a curb chain with it? I have been, since the lady at the store said the curb chain is essentially my "brakes" for the horse, but I have read you don't use a curb with a snaffle & was kinda confused.
Also, is there a lot of difference between loose ring, dee ring & eggbutt?
BTW: this bit (above) works great with my mustang.
With my Walker, I used this one
But when she ran away with me one time, my neighbor put her in something like this
except, where the curb should be there is a piece of metal like a mullen mouth (I'll take a picture of it tomorrow). I hate it because it looks painful, but he has more experience with horses, so I let him use it. Thankfully, she is on maternity leave, so it didn't get used much, but I think I will just put her back in a snaffle & see how it goes.
The lady at the tack store needs some education. The first bit you show does not use a curb chain the way a leverage bit does. The only reason someone puts a curb chain on that bit is to prevent the bit from being pulled through the horse's mouth if he is resisting your reins making a turn (typical on a green horse).
The second bit has a Billy Allen mouth piece, my favorite. If your horse is not stopping with that bit then both you and your horse could use some training not moved up to a harsher bit.
The third bit is a typical Walking Horse bit and, like any leverage bit, can be severe in uneducated hands.
No, it's not a power curb. I put a curly shoe string on it to cushion it a bit since it was cutting her bottom jaw. She has been in maternity leave for the last couple months, so we haven't been using it & he only used it a short time before we stopped riding her.
I think sometimes he doesn't know what he's talking about, but he has more experience than me, I'm reluctant to disagree with his advice. That is why I am trying to learn all I can about everything so I can make my own decisions about my horses.
The first bit, the snaffle, are you using the slots, or not?
The second bit is a great bit, and you should not need something harsher to prevent a runaway.
Yes, I am using the slots on the first bit. The second bit I brought home when he changed Dakota's bit to that harsh one, but he's over my house all the time & one day I saw it was gone. I asked him about it & he said he took it & has been using it in his pony. Now it's all rusty & i really don't want it back, so I thought I'd just try out the snaffle in Dakota & if it works well for her, then just get her one of her own.
Funny thing, tho, I used to ride her in a jointed-mouth loose ring snaffle & she would toss her head & ride with her head high all the time (avoiding the bit?).
Then I bought the Myler bit book to learn about bits & chose that second bit I posted. All was well until she ran away with me one day. While at the Equine Affaire last Feb, I asked Julie Goodnight about the bit change & all she said was she "wouldn't have put her horse in that bit", but wouldn't explain why or offer any suggestions. That was really disappointing to me since I watch her show (Horse Master) all the time on RFDTV & I guess I just expected her to be more helpful.
Um, wow. This may sound a bit rude but I know of no other way to say it.
If you are riding her in a bit like that and cranking on her mouth to the point that the curb bar is cutting into her chin, then there are some very serious training problems that need to be addressed. As for the neighbor that suggested she be ridden in that, he needs to be smacked. Your brakes don't come from the size or strength of the bit in their mouth, it comes from the training that they've gotten. If your mare is running away with you in any bit that isn't putting her lower jaw in a vice, then there is a desperate need for retraining for both the rider and the horse.
Just to clarify...I do not approve of that bit. I think it looks cruel myself. My neighbor is the one who "insists" she needs that. It was only used a few times (to my objections), but not knowing any better (remember, I am new to horses), I let him do it. I am going over right now to throw that thing into the trash can...I can think of no better place for it.
Thank you for your honesty. I did not take anything as being "rude". I just wanted someone else who knows something about horses to second my opinion that this bit is cruel.
I've only seen that bit in person once, advertised--aptly--as a "Whoa Horse." I wondered if you were talking about it, but the picture of the Walker bit threw me off. That bit is NOT meant to be ridden on contact. It should only be used by very experienced riders, and then with a draped rein. The point of the curb is to intimidate the horse into having a quick stop. You slam them into the ground a couple times, and they won't soon forget that pain. From then on, every time you touch the reins they sit down and slam on the brakes.
Do not, I repeat, do not use it anymore, or you run the risk not only of causing your horse pain, but of permanently ruining her mouth (or causing her to rear from the pressure--that curb can even break a jaw). It's also time to stop taking advice from Mr. Neighbor....not all "experts" are as they claim to be.
Instead, if you are somehow able to find competent instruction, and a trainer who is willing to work with both your horse and you, that is the avenue I would take. No bit can prevent a horse from running away, but a good rider can prevent a dangerous bolting episode on any horse with any bit. But you have to know how to use the tools appropriately for your horse (and how to choose the correct one).
The point of the curb is to intimidate the horse into having a quick stop. You slam them into the ground a couple times, and they won't soon forget that pain. From then on, every time you touch the reins they sit down and slam on the brakes.
No way! Already off the bridle. Want to throw it away, but it doesn't belong to me. Maybe I'll just hide it & see if he ever asks for it back. Hopefully, he won't, but he may have borrowed it from a local rancher, so I shouldn't toss it...just yet.
It's also time to stop taking advice from Mr. Neighbor.
Yeah, I got that. I have been investing in some training videos (which help alot), and also have been in contact with one trainer. The only problem with the trainer is, she wants me to board there & come for training sessions. I keep my horse at home & really don't want to board her elsewhere, so I will keep looking.
As it is, I ride everyday & my riding skills get better each time. I just wish I knew more horsey people to talk & ride with.
I want to thank everyone for their advice & don't worry...that bit will NEVER pass any of my horses' lips ever again!
But he must have used a strong hand on it once or twice since I did see a scab on her jaw. That was when I put the coil shoestring on to try to cushion it.
It's interesting, too, that my mare really doesn't like him. She tries to bite him when we ride together & once, she ran him into a tree to get him off her back. Dislocated his shoulder. Except for the few times she ran away with me, she actually seems very protective of me.
As far as the running away goes, I have learned to spin her around when she tries to bolt. Works better than pulling back on the reins.
I was looking at different bits that were in barrel horse's mouths at a recent open speed show and was beyond amazed, I saw Mechanical Hacks with 10" shanks, the gag bit rope hack combos all with twisted wire mouth pieces, I even saw a few of the metal nose ones. I was just standing there on my horse in a Argentine Snaffle copper 2 piece mouthpiece.
Some of the things barrel racers use are just rediculous. It's mostly because they don't properly train their horses to stop without yanking back as hard as possible.
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