Bit Information (Snaffle and English-Type Bits)

Love this~

I have to disagree due to simple physics. Once you begin to put pressure on the reins, the bit will pivot in the mouth so that the apex of the joint will be directly opposite of the pressure being applied. So, on a horse that has been taught to give to the bit and break at the poll, a rider who pulls hard will cause the joint to stand up in the horse's mouth, pointing directly at the palate, so yes, it is possible to stab the horse in the roof of the mouth with a single jointed snaffle bit.

Those horses who fling their head up in the air and root their noses out do so because they have figured out that doing that is the only way to negate the function of the snaffle. Once their head reaches a certain angle, then the joint will be pointing downward in their mouth toward their front teeth. After that, the only pressure they are getting at all is on their lips and horses that have figured out the "magic spot" for a snaffle generally find that lip pressure rather easy to ignore.

Smrobs - I really think you need to take another look at how the bit functions. When the rider uses the rein the action is up and back - it physically cannot turn the bit around in the mouth.

I do know how the bit functions and I fully understand the physics of it. I've seen it happen and felt it happen so yes, it can, and does happen.

When the pressure is up and back....and the horse puts his face down and in, that creates a perpendicular line of pressure from the reins and bit to the palate. It's all physics. Relatively simple physics at that.

All I can say is that your horses must do weird things with their bits as I've never yet seen a bit do that - mine all work in snaffles.

I have done much study on this subject since the word was spread about the joint hitting the roof of the mouth and it is a physical impossibility.

You can believe whatever you wish to believe .

I know what Robs is saying. As the face becomes vertical then the hinge in the mouthpiece is facing more toward the pallet. However, unless the horse has a neck like a giraffe, the bit is still going to be below the level of the hands in which case the hands and reins are actually elevating the mouth piece which rotates the apex of the hinge slightly downward toward front teeth of the lower jaw. You also have to consider the width of the mouth in relation to the length of the mouth piece. The Horse's cheeks hold the rings apart so that the break of the hinge is really quite minimal. Tanavas is correct, even if there was vertical pressure toward the horse's feet because of the width of the horses jaw the hinge of the bit would never hit the pallet. The rings would have to be practically touching each other in order to elevate the hinge sufficiently to make contact with the pallet. Put the bit on your knee or even your arch pull back on the rings and see how much of a peak there is in the hinge. Hardly any. The bit is a breaking bit and is designed to work on the corners of the mouth in order to avoid damaging the bars of a green horse. A snaffle with shanks is a harsh leverage bit and not a true snaffle. You can buy a cheap, ($6) traditional broken mouth snaffle that works fine if it is fitted right. I used the same one for fifteen years and retrained a lot of problem horses with it. You never heard any of this "nutcracker" nonsense until the $100+ french link bits hit the market. The french link may be a fine bit but it would seem to me that as soon as you add a link the mouth piece becomes a chain. I will stick with the traditional bits I have used for decades. They have worked fine for me. A couple of other things, the more flexibility a mouth piece has the more it can arch over the tongue placing the solid parts closer to the bars. Add a link and the bit is now double hinged. If it is necessary to double a green horse around in an emergency and the bit slides through the mouth the flat french link can become a knife blade. Maybe not the best bit to start with.

Eliduc! I love your post!!

I too have no double link bits - have used one once with distastrous results - wondered why I had tried it in the first place!

I own countless Fulmer snaffles - in all sizes, and eggbut and just recently a sweet iron, single joint eggbut for my Clydie mare - she likes it.

Today I put my 5yr old into a Fulmer with keepers and his rider reported that he went the kindest ever - she broke him in a plain loose ring, single joint and he was being a bit mouthy, toady he had his mouth shut and didn't once argue.

I've been using a single jointed bit for over 40 years.

Me too. Geeze, you must be almost as old as dirt.... Er. I mean old as me. I thought my last horse was going to be my last. He died with his head in my lap right before Thanksgiving. He was a Fjord/Qtr cross. He was four years old and just coming into his own, a wonderful, steady driving horse. So anyway, here I am today at 71 years of age longing my new four year old unbroke Qtr. Horse. He will soon be in a snaffle bit.

Is that the same horse you posted about in November?