Bit Information (Snaffle and English-Type Bits) - Page 19
 
 

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Bit Information (Snaffle and English-Type Bits)

This is a discussion on Bit Information (Snaffle and English-Type Bits) within the Horse Tack and Equipment forums, part of the Horse Tack category
  • Snaffle bit horse chin strap
  • Proper position of the O ring snaffle bit curb strap

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    05-21-2012, 04:13 PM
  #181
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnavas    
Technically it should not be called a curb strap but a chin strap. It has no action on the bit bar preventing it from sliding through the horses mouth.

A curb strap acts as a fulcrum to allow the pressure of the bit in the mouth to increase and poll pressure to be generated.
But does it have the same effect on a snaffle bit? I'm relatively sure it doesnt.
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    05-21-2012, 04:14 PM
  #182
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnavas    
Technically it should not be called a curb strap but a chin strap. It has no action on the bit bar preventing it from sliding through the horses mouth.

A curb strap acts as a fulcrum to allow the pressure of the bit in the mouth to increase and poll pressure to be generated.
I totally agree - a curb strap is for curb bits - that is why I wondered why some western riders put them on a snaffle bit
     
    05-21-2012, 04:22 PM
  #183
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by katbalu    
But does it have the same effect on a snaffle bit? I'm relatively sure it doesnt.
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No - the chin strap is reletively loose whereas the curb strap lies snug in the chin groove.

Fitting of CURB Strap


Fitting of CHIN Strap
     
    05-21-2012, 04:37 PM
  #184
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnavas    
No - the chin strap is reletively loose whereas the curb strap lies snug in the chin groove.

Fitting of CURB Strap


Fitting of CHIN Strap
Curb strap should have 2-3 fingers between the curb strap & horse's jaw. Chin strap is seen on a noseband such as a flash noseband. A chin strap goes in front of the bit, to keep the mouth closed tighter.

Crown Jawband Flash Bridle | Dover Saddlery
     
    05-21-2012, 05:07 PM
  #185
Yearling
OK - I found the answer from JulieGoodnight on this subject - thanks everyone.

There are many excellent questions that you pose and I applaud your efforts in trying to get things right for the safety of your riders and for the welfare of the horses you influence. First, let me address the use of the curb strap with the snaffle bit. You are right that the curb strap will only come into play on a leverage bit; on the snaffle (direct pressure bit) the curb strap will never engage. This does tends to break down along English and Western lines because English riders think it is absurd to have a curb strap on a snaffle because it seemingly serves no purpose on the snaffle, since there is no 'curbing' action.

From the Western point of view, the snaffle is a tool that is only used on young, green horses; once the horses mature and are more 'finished' in its training you use a curb bit (which is better for one-handed riding).Those finished horses are referred to as 'bridle horses,' because they are well enough trained to ride one-handed in a full bridle, with very little pressure actually used on the bit. This is the end result in training the Western horses while some English horses will remain in the snaffle forever.

If your use of the snaffle is strictly for colts, you know that you'll be occasionally using a lot of pull to guide the horse in a certain direction and the curb strap is there to help hold the bit in the center of the horse's mouth. You should not need this advantage on a well trained horse, which is the perspective most English people have since they are not oriented toward colt-starting.

However, a beginner rider may also take hold of a horse's mouth and put more pressure on the bit than is necessary, so the curb strap might help in that instance, too. Even though the horse is theoretically trained enough that it shouldn't require that much pull, the rider is not discriminating enough to give subtle cues. So the purpose of the curb strap on the snaffle is to help balance the bit in the horse's mouth, regardless of why you need that balance. You shouldn't use a curb chain for this purpose; it just adds unnecessary weight and noise; the chain (as opposed to the strap) does not increase the pressure on the chin with the snaffle as it does in the curb bit. If your purpose is just to keep the bit centered, you should either use a leather curb strap or just a cord to connect the two rings of the bit.

You are totally correct that a snaffle, in many instances, is a safer bit than a curb and if someone is having a training issue with a horse, going to a harsher bit is rarely the solution and will usually make things worse. I spend a lot more time trying to get riders to go to a milder bit than the other way around. For more information on this, please visit the 'library' section of my website, www.JulieGoodnight.com.
Whether the horse or the rider is lacking in training (sadly it is often both), if you use a curb strap on the snaffle, it should be attached to the rings of the bit above the reins, like on any bit for any purpose. Remember its only purpose is to align the bit in the horse's mouth, so its adjustment should be with no tension between the rings of the bit, but it should come into play if one side of the bit is pulled out of normal position. The adjustment is without too much tension, but without too much slack.

Ironically, most people use the equipment they use because that's what everyone else uses; they have no idea what they are doing, let alone why. It is important for us as instructors to know why and to question why they are doing things. It is also important for us to be able to answer students when they ask why they should do something we told them to do. I hope this helps you realize that you were on the right track and asking the right questions.
     
    05-21-2012, 05:52 PM
  #186
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnitaAnne    
Curb strap should have 2-3 fingers between the curb strap & horse's jaw. Chin strap is seen on a noseband such as a flash noseband. A chin strap goes in front of the bit, to keep the mouth closed tighter.

Crown Jawband Flash Bridle | Dover Saddlery
What you have shown is a flash strap - the strap that goes around the horses face below the bit.

This is what turns the cavesson noseband into a flash noseband.

A chin strap goes in the chin area!!
     
    05-21-2012, 06:16 PM
  #187
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnavas    
What you have shown is a flash strap - the strap that goes around the horses face below the bit.

This is what turns the cavesson noseband into a flash noseband.

A chin strap goes in the chin area!!
Yes, the flash attachment buckles around the chin, thus a chin strap...

Did you read what Julie Goodnight wrote above?

If you would prefer the link I can provide that instead - I will need to relocate it, but would be happy to help you see it. Please note in there that she, a professional, refers to the strap as a curb strap. I think your use of "curb strap" and "chin strap" is describing the very same object.

However, that being said, I was just curious about why western riders use one, and that has been answered by the info I posted above.

If you want to continue to call them two different things, that is of course your business, and I don't care one way or the other. You appear to be becoming agitated about the subject, where for me it was only idle curiosity.
     
    05-21-2012, 06:31 PM
  #188
Yearling
FYI - a "cavesson" and "noseband" mean the same thing

You can have a plain noseband, rolled noseband, crank noseband, figure 8 noseband, flash noseband, dropped noseband, etc. All also called cavesson.

Figure 8 & flash have a chin strap in addition to the jaw strap.

I do not understand why the western rider just doesn't use a noseband, but again, only idle curiosity!

Link to info on western snaffle with curb/chin strap:
SNAFFLE
     
    05-21-2012, 09:06 PM
  #189
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnitaAnne    
FYI - a "cavesson" and "noseband" mean the same thing
Don't know where you are getting your info from but 'Noseband' is the generic name for a variety of types of equipment that is worn with a bridle and goes around the face. Cavesson is a type

Cavesson Noseband


Flash Noseband


Drop Noseband


Grackle Noseband


Mexican Noseband - identified by the rings at the ends of the headpiece


Crank Noseband


And finally a Lunge Cavesson
     
    05-21-2012, 09:26 PM
  #190
Started
As someone who rides both western and english, I use the chin strap on a snaffle to prevent it from going through the mouth (yes it does that) and to keep it centered. One thing that would be nice is if people who ride and know the discipline would comment instead of making assumptions.
     

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