Bit Information (Snaffle and English-Type Bits) - Page 20 - The Horse Forum
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post #191 of 287 Old 05-21-2012, 10:43 PM
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You know, I had wondered if I should have edited that post to say "the term noseband is generally used to mean the same thing as a cavesson, although you can purchase a nose band without the headstall attached" after I hit "submit" so quick, just in case you wanted to throw this back at me. I really had hoped you would learn and not argue the point...

But if you insist on the technical, a cavesson is not just the noseband, the term includes the strap that goes over the head, the headstall. So a cavesson is a headstall, separate from the bridle, with a noseband attached.

But no, the cavesson does not only come in a plain, flat style and in general the terms are used to mean the same. There are several types of cavessons, as I listed above. Check back with Dover's you will see them used randomly.

But - since you ask, I am from America! What you show as a "grackle" is what we here call a figure 8.

As you asked - here is a "definition" for my info:
"A noseband is the part of a horse's bridle that encircles the nose and jaw of the horse. InEnglish riding, where the noseband is separately attached to its own headstall (headpiece), it is often called a Cavesson. In other styles of riding, a simple noseband is sometimes attached directly to the same headstall as the bit."

Now the link for a "sourse" of the definition of the cavesson and it's use & some history:
Define Cavesson | Dictionary and Thesaurus

Please, I find it strange that you keep on with this subject, but I hope you are bringing this up because you are that interested.

I also hope that you continue to learn about all the different type of equipment and their uses. Knowledge is always good

Last edited by AnitaAnne; 05-21-2012 at 10:46 PM.
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post #192 of 287 Old 05-21-2012, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumanji321 View Post
As someone who rides both western and english, I use the chin strap on a snaffle to prevent it from going through the mouth (yes it does that) and to keep it centered. One thing that would be nice is if people who ride and know the discipline would comment instead of making assumptions.
Thank you, that is exactly what Julie Goodnight said! I wish now I had just googled the information first instead of asking a simple question. I did not expect to get such hostility back. Thank you once again for your simple, concise answer.
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post #193 of 287 Old 05-21-2012, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by AnitaAnne View Post
Thank you, that is exactly what Julie Goodnight said! I wish now I had just googled the information first instead of asking a simple question. I did not expect to get such hostility back. Thank you once again for your simple, concise answer.
Well I'm glad you shared what you found.
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post #194 of 287 Old 05-21-2012, 11:42 PM
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Anita, don't get too riled up over what Tnavas says. She is one of those posters that is always right about everything and nobody better say any different *eyeroll*.

Anyway, the strap on a snaffle has several different names, depending on where you're from and what environment you were raised in. Just in my area, I've known them to be called curb straps, chin straps, bit hobbles, and since coming on here, I've also learned that they are called "lip straps" in Australia.

One reason why they are so much more common in western riding than they are in english riding is that western bridles don't have the various styles of noseband to act as a security measure on the bit/bridle. So, a curb strap is used, especially on loose-ring snaffles.

Since, in western riding, snaffles are primarily a bit used on young horses, it's not uncommon to have a horse resist and gape their mouth when you try to stop/turn them. Thankfully, I've never had it happen to be because I've always kept the strap on my snaffles, but I've seen the result of a young horse that gets the bit pulled through the side of their mouth. It's not pretty LOL.
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post #195 of 287 Old 05-21-2012, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by smrobs View Post
Anita, don't get too riled up over what Tnavas says. She is one of those posters that is always right about everything and nobody better say any different *eyeroll*.
Not a very pleasent thing to say!
I'm often right because of the level of training, experience and years in the business! If I'm wrong I'm generally the first to admit it. I enjoy learning.
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post #196 of 287 Old 05-21-2012, 11:49 PM
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Riiiigghhtt .
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Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
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post #197 of 287 Old 05-22-2012, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by AnitaAnne View Post
I really had hoped you would learn and not argue the point...
I find your post very rude and patronising. For a start I have been involved with horses for around 45 years, I am a BHS instructor, ABRS Grooms Dip, and a Pony Club B certificate level examiner. I trained in the UK in the yard owned by a master saddler, and so know my tack very thoroughly. I teach students for exams with a very high success rate.

A cavesson noseband is a plain basic noseband that just encircles the nose. Adjusted to sit two fingers below the projecting cheekbone and with two fingers between face and noseband. Generally used to 'finish off' the turnout. The width and placing can help improve appearance. Its true function is for use with a standing martingale. If you want to get picky then you can add the headpiece to the equation,


The rest of the nosebands have specific purposes along with specific names.
EG: - The Flash (Hanovarian) was developed to replace the use of two nosebands, the Cavesson and the Drop in a time when standing martingales were used a lot and the rider wanted help keeping the horses mouth shut, and didn't want the uglyness of two nosebands and all the extra headpieces..

A 'figure eight' noseband is really just a description rather than the correct name for the noseband. The Grackle and Mexican are physically different and fitted differently too.

The Grackle is fitted lower than the Mexican, the centre cross is usually rivited while the straps move along the cheeks. There is also a strap that links top and bottom straps under the jaw.

The Mexican has rings where the cheeks and nose straps meet. The crossover point is usually free running to allow for adjustment. The rings are fitted above the projecting cheek bone while the Grackle is fitted just below the projecting cheekbone.

American terminology is sometimes simplified and occaisionally the spelling may be altered - as in Kimberwicke bit - the correct name is Kimblewick after the town in the UK where it was invented.

The link was interesting and a simple explanation.
Noticed though that it refered to a Cavesson as a particular type and everywhere else used the term 'Noseband'.

When I post about equipment you can be generally assured that that my information is accurate.
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post #198 of 287 Old 05-22-2012, 12:20 AM
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Yet you get all huffy when we lowly "western" riders don't use the terms you deem correct to describe a piece of our own equipment? I find that rather amusing.
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post #199 of 287 Old 05-22-2012, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by smrobs View Post
Yet you get all huffy when we lowly "western" riders don't use the terms you deem correct to describe a piece of our own equipment? I find that rather amusing.
Please would you care to tell me where I got all huffy? We too use a chin strap on snaffles in English riding, we certainly don't describe them as curb straps when they are not on a curb bit!! No one identified whether the OP was discussing Western or English or am I supposed to be a mind reader!
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post #200 of 287 Old 05-22-2012, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by smrobs View Post
Yet you get all huffy when we lowly "western" riders don't use the terms you deem correct to describe a piece of our own equipment? I find that rather amusing.
Bless your heart smrobs for coming to my defense! But I am not getting agitated, I only feel pity for those that can't see past their own nose! The world must be a friendless & dull place for them...

I want to thank you, once again, for your common sense You took the words I was thinking right out of my head.

You know I have a long history of Dressage, and you are a Western girl, but still we seem to agree on most things...please remind me next time to ask you about all things western, ok?

Also please remind me to never, never, respond to anyone that tells me that all Americans are confused about the English language? Because as we know, words have different meaning just in different parts of the country, much less the world...
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