Bit Information (Snaffle and English-Type Bits) - Page 23
 
 

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Bit Information (Snaffle and English-Type Bits)

This is a discussion on Bit Information (Snaffle and English-Type Bits) within the Horse Tack and Equipment forums, part of the Horse Tack category
  • Mylar mechanical hackamores
  • Is the mylar combination for english riding

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    09-28-2012, 04:16 PM
  #221
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliduc    
It seems there is one in every crowd. Faye. I haven't yet learned how to ride from behind while I am longing a horse. The purpose of bitting a horse up before riding it for the first time is to introduce it to pressure on it's mouth. Aside from this being a safety measure, when it is the horse that is applying the pressure through it's own resistance it will submit to it much quicker and with less resistance than when a rider is pushing a totally green horse onto the bit with their seat and hands which would be poor horsemanship to say the least. Playing with the corners of a horses mouth to encourage it to lower it's head is not see sawing. It can be accomplished with only the little fingers. I specifically stated that this is nothing but an exercise. Watch the Grand Prix jumping horses. At the end of a course many will lower their nose almost to the ground at the end of a course. They don't just naturally do this. It has been taught to them in order to calm them and to keep them from becoming wired. I haven't been here in a long time. Do you ever offer anything that is positive or do you just lurk and criticize those who make the effort?
I too agree with FAYE - moving your hands down and fiddling with the bit so the horse lowers it's head is not correct in any form. As to the show jumpers many of their horses are incapable of going around a corner with a correct bend or active canter - SJ horses are often seen cantering 4 time as they are not sufficiently engaged or going forward.

If you want your horse to stretch - the first think he must do is 'Accept the contact of the bit' often best taught lunging in appropriate length side reins, the horse worked from behind into the contact - it goes and seeks the bit.

Correctly stretching you should be able to ease the reins or hands forward and keeping the rhythm as the horse stretches into the contact.

All this stems from a rider being able to keep a soft consistant contact on the horses mouth while maintaining forward, controlled impulsion.

Any instructor that wants you to bit up, or use gadgets is not worth working with.

Regardless of what discipline you are aiming for go to a good dressage trainer to get taught the right way to school a horse on the flat.
     
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    09-29-2012, 12:35 PM
  #222
Weanling
xx

As I stated before, twice I think, this technique is nothing more than a relaxation exercise which communicates to the horse for maybe 30 seconds, at the walk, ok the pressure is off you can relax. I also stated that I learned this from Bruce Davidson at a clinic. Davidson is a three day Oylmpic gold medalist and has traveled the world giving clinics. One day of the three day event is devoted to dressage so I think one could assume that Davidson is an accomplished dressage rider. So, you are saying that Bruce Davidson should go to a dressage instructor and "learn how to ride the correct way and that this technique that he teaches in his clinics is wrong? Here is a short bio on Davidson. "Bruce Davidson has been a member of the U.S. Equestrian Team since 1971. He was a member of two Olympic gold medal teams, 1976 and 1984, and earned two Olympic silver team medals in 1972 and 1996. In 1974, riding Irish Cap, Davidson was the first American to win the World Championships at Burghley in England. Due to his win the U.S. Was awarded the privilege of hosting the 1978 World Championships. Bruce defended his title aboard Might Tango and became the only rider to ever win back-to-back at the Lexington Kentucky World Championships."

Some minds are a steel safe such that useful information is locked out. While I admire the level of training that goes into an upper level dressage horse what practical purpose is there for piaffe and passage? Sure, it looks neat but it is basically a circus act with no practical application. There is no reason on God's green earth why a person training a horse to compete in a working cow horse class should pay a dressage instructor to teach them how to ride. Perhaps the beginning dressage rider would benefit from first taking lessons from a stock horse trainer in order to learn proper basics before attempting to learn dressage. If this statement causes your blood pressure to rise it is an indication of how offensive and audacious it is to participants of other equine disciplines to propose that dressage is the principle equine discipline that every rider should learn.
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    09-29-2012, 02:10 PM
  #223
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliduc    
As I stated before, twice I think, this technique is nothing more than a relaxation exercise which communicates to the horse for maybe 30 seconds, at the walk, ok the pressure is off you can relax. I also stated that I learned this from Bruce Davidson at a clinic. Davidson is a three day Oylmpic gold medalist and has traveled the world giving clinics. One day of the three day event is devoted to dressage so I think one could assume that Davidson is an accomplished dressage rider. So, you are saying that Bruce Davidson should go to a dressage instructor and "learn how to ride the correct way and that this technique that he teaches in his clinics is wrong? Here is a short bio on Davidson. "Bruce Davidson has been a member of the U.S. Equestrian Team since 1971. He was a member of two Olympic gold medal teams, 1976 and 1984, and earned two Olympic silver team medals in 1972 and 1996. In 1974, riding Irish Cap, Davidson was the first American to win the World Championships at Burghley in England. Due to his win the U.S. Was awarded the privilege of hosting the 1978 World Championships. Bruce defended his title aboard Might Tango and became the only rider to ever win back-to-back at the Lexington Kentucky World Championships."

Some minds are a steel safe such that useful information is locked out. While I admire the level of training that goes into an upper level dressage horse what practical purpose is there for piaffe and passage? Sure, it looks neat but it is basically a circus act with no practical application. There is no reason on God's green earth why a person training a horse to compete in a working cow horse class should pay a dressage instructor to teach them how to ride. Perhaps the beginning dressage rider would benefit from first taking lessons from a stock horse trainer in order to learn proper basics before attempting to learn dressage. If this statement causes your blood pressure to rise it is an indication of how offensive and audacious it is to participants of other equine disciplines to propose that dressage is the principle equine discipline that every rider should learn.
I am a Dressage rider and I have to say I agree with 99% of your statement...may I add though that the purpose of the Dressage movements are to showcase the talents of the horse, and all the movements are ones that the horse does in nature, they are just refined & controlled with the aid of the rider. If you have ever seen a horse prancing and showing his stuff at liberty, then you have seen the piaffe & passage. As to the purpose for these movements, we would have to ask a horse!

But yes, there are people in every walk of life who think their way is the only way, but please do not think all Dressage riders/trainers/etc, are that way! Many Dressage horses get sent to a cowboy to start them as 3 yr olds. It gives them a good base to build on.

I also have great respect for Bruce, and even have a signed picture somewhere from a Rolex CCI.

Anyone who believes there is only one "right way" to do anything is narrow-minded and foolish.
     
    09-29-2012, 03:00 PM
  #224
Yearling
I too have known some very famous Olympic level riders, worked for one and one in particular who totally stuffed up my horses jumping by misreading him and the rider. These riders are not always good at teaching.

I will stand by my statement that fiddling the horse down to stretch is incorrect - I am a classical dressage rider - taught by ex Spanish Riding school people and their students. A horse correctly trained will reach down WITHOUT the rider dropping his hands down or fiddling with the reins.
     
    09-30-2012, 02:20 PM
  #225
Green Broke
My young horse has been ridden from behind from day 1. If you actualy know what you are doing then you can workj from the inside hind leg on the lunge and in long reins.

My young horse will happily lift his wither, stretch across his topline and go nice and long and low without seesawing on his mouth at all. Infact all you have to do is lengthen your reins.

Eventing dressage in the 80's was dire! It was concidered an inconciquential section of it that had to be done before you got to the fun part. It iwas of so little importance because the XC phase was the big decider.

I've had lessons from carl hester (olympic silver medalist and trainer of the gold medalist in dressage), he is dead set against fiddling with the horses mouth!
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    10-01-2012, 05:00 PM
  #226
Weanling
Yes, Carl Hester is quite accomplished but I think you are comparing Apples to oranges in more ways than one. Hester is a classical dressage competitor. He and his horses compete in only one discipline, dressage. Davidson was a three day event rider who competed in three different disciplines. Therefore it was important to him that his horse did not become so jacked up from jumping the almost impossible cross country course that it could not compete well in the show jumping arena or the dressage court thus the relaxation exercise that he advocates and teaches. It's a simple exercise that instantly communicates to the horse through a cue, "We're finished. You can relax now. It's not a frame of riding, does not ask the horse to reach for the bit which would be in total opposition to the object of the exercise but gives the horse complete freedom from pressure. It is performed at the walk for a space of only twenty or so strides. It is a simple little exercise that I have found very effective in calming a horse's mind in transition between training exercises. It in no way interferes with anything else I have taught them. Pure and simple it is a time out. My definition of "see sawing" would be to pull the bit back and forth through the horses mouth which I would in no way advocate for any reason.
     
    11-27-2012, 10:45 AM
  #227
Banned
I use a Myler Combination bit. So far, it's been the best bit I've ever used. The only downfall to it is that I have some difficulty on occasion getting it on him without having to undo an extra buckle. But that's no biggie considering all the benefits from it. It applies pressure on the nose/pole area before the metal in his mouth, which makes sense since when a horse is in training, he doesn't have a bit in his mouth it's all nose and pole pressure. However, if I'm just pleasure riding around the property I just jump on him bareback with my lead rope in hand, attached to his halter and ride around one rein style. The best bit is no bit, if your riding style allows. But I definitely recommend the Myler combination bit, doesn't pinch the tongue, no pain, nose pressure, it's a win win all around.
     
    11-27-2012, 12:29 PM
  #228
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliduc    
Yes, Carl Hester is quite accomplished but I think you are comparing Apples to oranges in more ways than one. Hester is a classical dressage competitor. He and his horses compete in only one discipline, dressage. Davidson was a three day event rider who competed in three different disciplines. Therefore it was important to him that his horse did not become so jacked up from jumping the almost impossible cross country course that it could not compete well in the show jumping arena or the dressage court thus the relaxation exercise that he advocates and teaches. It's a simple exercise that instantly communicates to the horse through a cue, "We're finished. You can relax now. It's not a frame of riding, does not ask the horse to reach for the bit which would be in total opposition to the object of the exercise but gives the horse complete freedom from pressure. It is performed at the walk for a space of only twenty or so strides. It is a simple little exercise that I have found very effective in calming a horse's mind in transition between training exercises. It in no way interferes with anything else I have taught them. Pure and simple it is a time out. My definition of "see sawing" would be to pull the bit back and forth through the horses mouth which I would in no way advocate for any reason.
This is what Free Walk on a Long Rein is all about - bit is not achieved by any see sawing on the mouth - Mine will all work long and low in all paces by mearly easing out the rein.

Dressage is the key to success in many disciplines - if the horse is well schooled, supple and obedient it is far easier to ride. For example there is a fence that your horse is not too happy with, the unschooled horse will say "stuff you , I'm not jumping that" while the well schooled horse will say "I don't like this fence but I will jump it because I have been asked to"
     
    11-28-2012, 08:22 PM
  #229
Weanling
To Tnavas:It is a given that a supple and obedient horse is easier to ride. It might be more accurate to state that dressage is a key to success. Many people would disagree that it is the key to success. To E 87: The Mylar combination bit is a mechanical hackamore with the addition of any one of the Mylar mouth pieces. While many riders have the misconception that the m. Hackamore is humane because there is nothing in the horse's mouth the opposite is true. In any but neutral rein position the Mylar bit has a narrow nose band that puts downward pressure behind the nose at the same time the curb exerts upward pressure on the lower jaw. The result is like pinching the horses jaws together in a pair of vice grips at the same time the shanks apply downward pressure on the poll and the mouthpiece applies pressure to the bars. If a broken mouth bar is used for the mouth piece then there is a nutcracker effect on the bars that is greatly increased by the shanks of the bit. A shanked snaffle is not a snaffle at all but a rather severe leverage bit. The traditional m. Hackamores have metal tabs attached to the upper shanks that dig into boney structures of the face. At least one of the 3 Mylar combination bits has knots that replace the tabs. Mylar states that their first level C. Bit is suitable for green, unresponsive horses while the third level bit is suited for fractious, unmanageable horses. In other words, horses that need to be trained or retrained in a broken mouth snaffle. That said, the severity of any bit is in the hands of the rider so whatever works best....
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    12-01-2012, 06:58 PM
  #230
Foal
Awesome THREAD!!
I am new to English riding and this was really informative. I am currently training my "barrel horse" to become an "English horse" and I'm currently using a pelham on him.
I think that it's a great bit for him. I try to use the snaffle most of the time, but I still have to use the shank part of the bit to get him to stop.
     

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