Bit Information (Snaffle and English-Type Bits) - Page 25

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Bit Information (Snaffle and English-Type Bits)

This is a discussion on Bit Information (Snaffle and English-Type Bits) within the Horse Tack and Equipment forums, part of the Horse Tack category

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    12-05-2012, 10:54 PM
My thoughts would first go to a thinner mouthpiece, the waterford people say is great for those that take hold.

Are you able to borrow some bits to try?
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    12-05-2012, 11:01 PM
Green Broke
No darn it. And she has a 6.5" mouth so it makes it hard to borrow and to find to purchase once I do decide what I want. I started a thread for help so maybe others will have suggestions also. Thank you!
    12-06-2012, 12:46 PM
I have had very good results with my Bob Avila correction bit which is a western bit. It is a loose cheek curb but the bars of the mouth piece also swivel below the raised curb which effectively allows you to use a direct rein and it does work. It is really a transition bit designed to be used between a snaffle and a curb but I have not had any reason to put my horse in a straight curb after using this bit. There are several models of this bit. The one I have has moderate five inch lower shanks and also rein slots directly behind the mouth piece for only direct reining. The bit could be used with double reins. I have one on my driving bridle and one on one of my western bridles. The bit costs about $50. The only correction mouthpiece I could find on a Liverpool driving bit was made in England and cost $200. The bit really works well and my horse loves it. Of course, the snobs in my driving club look at the bit and sneer, "That's a western bit, its not legal." So what? Some of the English bits with straight, unbalanced shanks are really pieces of severe junk. In my opinion.
    12-06-2012, 12:58 PM
Oops. A 6.5 inch mouth? You won't find an Avila bit that big. Mylar will custom make anything you want for a price. My last driving horse was half fjord and didn't have the most responsive mouth in the world which was why I went to the correction bit. It was just enough to make a difference.
    12-06-2012, 01:23 PM
Green Broke
Originally Posted by eliduc    
Oops. A 6.5 inch mouth? You won't find an Avila bit that big. Mylar will custom make anything you want for a price. My last driving horse was half fjord and didn't have the most responsive mouth in the world which was why I went to the correction bit. It was just enough to make a difference.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh really, they will?? Well I better make sure its what I want, lol. Maybe I will email them and see. Thanks!
I am going to switch back to my curb for now and either send back or sell the snaffle. That really is not going to work for us. Talk about no breaks!

Its not that she is not trained, maybe she is over trained, lol. Story is she was a dressage champ, (lady I got her from saw pictures) and the gal had to auction her off for unknown reasons, the lady I got her from bought her for a steal and actually saw the ad for her on for 3500 for a quick sale, anyway, she bred her twice and rode her western in a snaffle. I think she said she had her 5 years. She is 14 now. I got her in October and ride western, so its not her that has a problem, its me, trying to figure out what she needs, lol.

She is one of those that is just big and gentle and does not realize she is appearing stubborn, she has a big presence and you have to remind her that she is big. She will push and shove if you let her get away with it, but I do not think she is being disrespectful as much as its just her way. She seems to be a gentle giant, lol.
    12-06-2012, 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by Tnavas    
I will stand by my statement that fiddling the horse down to stretch is incorrect - I am a classical dressage rider - taught by ex Spanish Riding school people and their students. A horse correctly trained will reach down WITHOUT the rider dropping his hands down or fiddling with the reins.
Psssst... Side reins are doing exactly what you are saying "not" to do here... and you are strongly advocating those. Except side reins lack the same give that the horse would receive from experienced hands... just sayin'. You are advocating side-reins, which exerts the same (even harsher, in many cases) downward pull on the horse. At least, in good hands, the horse would receive "give" for getting the correct response... gentle "fiddling" would be much more preferable (with immediate reward, of course) than a constant pull, as it encourages the "correct response" from the horse, more quickly, with less "constant" struggle than the downward pull of sidereins.

Just saying...

There is a time and place for many tools and training techniques - ones you are for, and ones your are against... riding techniques, as with most tools or devices, there is a correct use, and an incorrect use.

I should also "just say" that if a rider doesn't have good control of their hands, then side-reins are definitely the better choice...
    12-06-2012, 02:18 PM
Silly horses - my side reins have no elastic or donuts so are replicating the reins a rider has - I teach (Classically) that my horses work into the outside rein contact (A STILL ONE - Classical) - he doesn't receive a see sawing contact on his mouth. A classical rider rides into the outside rein with a still contact.

I work them through from behind and as if I was on them and using my inside leg. A good rider Takes and Returns with a half halt - and does not throw away the rein, even free walk on a long rein has a contact.

What is the 'Free Walk on a Long Rein' exercise al about - the ability of the horse to remain relaxed - long rein is used to reward a horse for work completed - if riders use this in their work regularly through the schooling period the horse will know that as soon as the rein is eased out he can rest, relax. He should not need see sawing to achieve this.

My horses are all worked in a plain single jointed snaffle and with a cavesson noseband - think this says it all - I have happy horses, confident in the contact who don't resist their bits. ALL have been either brought on and broken with the side reins or have been reschooled the same.

Spanish Riding school use side reins that have no elestic inserts or donuts, and their horses are worked for a lot of the time in side reins and their horses work beautifully with no tension or resistance.
    12-06-2012, 06:49 PM
Green Broke
Originally Posted by nvr2many    
No darn it. And she has a 6.5" mouth so it makes it hard to borrow and to find to purchase once I do decide what I want. I started a thread for help so maybe others will have suggestions also. Thank you!
The Pelham will work, but won't be "correct" for western shows. You can use it all other times. I've used one on horses especially when newbie kids are riding so they can stop the horse.

I wonder though, are you using the snaffle the western way without a noseband? Because a horse can run though a snaffle easy without a noseband. But again, nosebands are not correct for western riding.

So we come to a bit that works like a pelham, but is western...the Tom thumb bit. Lately there seems to be a theory that the tom thumb is a harsh bit, but I have never had an issue with one. When I rode western I always used tom thumb bits and every single horse worked calmly and happily in a tom thumb but hated a regular curb and would throw up their heads even with a tiny pull on a ported, short-shanked curb.

Anyway, I expect I will get a lot of "hate replies" since I like a tom thumb, but oh well...

The are sites that sell bits up to a 8" for the really big drafts, so finding one in a 6.5 should not be hard at all.
    12-07-2012, 03:07 PM
The thing is, when a rider is too rigid in their beliefs they are often self limiting. Horses are all different and the same thing doesn't always work on every horse or at least work as well. Good trainers have more than one way to achieve the same result. Most riders do not have lofty goals and do not want to take ten years to train their horse or to pay for ten years worth of lessons and training. They would rather buy a house. That is in no way being critical of those who do. I admire their tenacity.

I am presently retraining a 9 year old Standardbred that was recently retired from the track. There were two problems that are common to off track Standys. 1. All of them are trained to travel at speed with a vertical neck and hollow backed frame. 2. If the horse is bred and trained as a pacer it is often very difficult to teach them to trot because they have been bred,trained and conditioned not to break from the pace....that is, both legs on the same side moving forward at the same time in a three beat gait. The standard procedure for achieving the trot is to longe the horse over ground poles. Another is to trot uphill under saddle because it is difficult for the horse to pace uphill. Since any race horse is taught to lean on the bit at speed, direct, steady contact is not necessarily the answer to altering the horses conditioned behavior. A hollow backed horse will never have a correct frame and head carriage. I first achieved a trot with this horse on the ground. At the same time I taught him to lower his head and reach at the mounted walk by lightly tickling the corners of his mouth with the reins and I can assure you that this is in no way "see sawing." It was not long before I had the horse reaching down with his head at the walk. However, he still would not trot on the flat under saddle. The object here is not to get into a fight with him over it but to ease him into the trot gently. He needed more ground work. On the longe he could not trot depart counter clockwise without a little hop and a skip. It was like he had to get his mind coordinated because he was thinking pace. Once he is in a trot he has a nice free flowing trot and he will hold it. That's a nice thing about Standy's, they are taught not to break gait. At First Bart had no stop, only go. He didn't know how to back. He didn't reverse on the longe line. Now he stops, backs and reverses. The place we we are at now is trot departures from a reverse on the longe in order to achieve a smooth trot departure without the hop skip. I am conditioning him to break into a trot without having time to think about the pace. It's much more difficult to break into a pace from a reverse. When he becomes consistent on the ground we will start working with what we have learned under saddle. Bart is already well trained to race in harness but nevertheless has holes in his education. An off track thoroughbred has been ridden but that doesn't make him a dependable or safe saddle horse. My philosophy is that a safe driving horse should first be made into a safe riding horse. There is much less control from behind the horse than from on top the horse. It's difficult if not impossible to teach the horse good basics, lateral movement and flexation if the horse has no trot. In the last week Bart has started stretching his head to the ground in just a halter at the trot on the longe without any gimmicks or aids. You do what works. The trot is a whole new thing for him. "Hey! I can travel relaxed without my head in the air like a giraffe." The goal here is not a dressage horse but a horse that can be ridden and driven safely on our trails. I have been working with Bart for about two months now.
AnitaAnne likes this.
    04-21-2013, 09:23 PM
What about this one?

Tom thumb Snaffle. We sometimes call these pony bits. Where I live, these are THE most popular bits.

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