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Bitless Bridles - a personal experience.

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  • How to fit muserola
  • Riding with a parelli hackamore

 
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    11-02-2008, 10:51 PM
  #31
Showing
I still do not for the life of me see the difference between a rope halter and a "Parelli hackamore." It just doesn't click with me.


And like I said, if you're having troubles in a bit, then chances are there's something going on; either with the training, the type of bit, the fit of the bit, or even the fit of the bridle.


I firmly believe that (unless the horse absolutely cannot carry a bit due to injury or conformation) they should be able to accept a bit and work in it willingly. This is for the horse's future - if it gets sold on in the future, you want it to be able to carry a bit, because a lot of riders WILL NOT ride bitless.
Nobody can say 100% for sure their horse will never get sold in the future... I, as a horse owner, want to make Denny as well trained as possible so if I ever do have to sell him, he has a better chance of going to a good, permanent home.
That's my opinion. If the horse can work well in a bit and bitless, then bravo, you should be proud of your training.
     
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    11-03-2008, 12:11 PM
  #32
Trained
When I was looking at horses, there was this qh gelding that would not tolerate a bit at all and had to be ridden in a hackamore. As much as I liked him, I decided against him (amoungst other reasons) because he wouldn't take a bit.
There was also this other paint mare, really sweet (out of my price range though) and she two just wouldn't accept a bit and had to be ridden in a hackamore.

I think its great if someone wants to ride bitless, but I also feel that a horse that takes a bit will be able to sell faster than a horse who's ridden bitless (and cannot take a bit)

There was one other horse that I knew that HAD to be ridden bitless, but he had tumors in his mouth and couldn't comfortable wear a bit. I believe his owner used a dr. Cooks.
     
    11-03-2008, 05:52 PM
  #33
Zab
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustDressageIt    
I still do not for the life of me see the difference between a rope halter and a "Parelli hackamore." It just doesn't click with me.


And like I said, if you're having troubles in a bit, then chances are there's something going on; either with the training, the type of bit, the fit of the bit, or even the fit of the bridle.


I firmly believe that (unless the horse absolutely cannot carry a bit due to injury or conformation) they should be able to accept a bit and work in it willingly. This is for the horse's future - if it gets sold on in the future, you want it to be able to carry a bit, because a lot of riders WILL NOT ride bitless.
Nobody can say 100% for sure their horse will never get sold in the future... I, as a horse owner, want to make Denny as well trained as possible so if I ever do have to sell him, he has a better chance of going to a good, permanent home.
That's my opinion. If the horse can work well in a bit and bitless, then bravo, you should be proud of your training.
I agree with you there. I prefer bitless (lazyness etc) and my horse is never used to/ridden with a snaffle, because the bitless I use works instead of the snaffle. But he will get used to a spanish curb because that's a part of his schooling. And it's so pretty.. *drools* Yeah, I'm so good at prioritating reasos x) (He'll be ridden with both muserola (bitless ''snaffle'') and the escuela (curb), when he's more educated. Now it's just the muserola) When he's used to that I doubt there would be any problems with using a regular snaffle, but if I am to sell him I'd check that first, of course.

If the horse can't get used to a bit, something is wrong with the training. Not all horses work well on all bits, but at least one of all the snaffles and one of all the curbs that excist, should fit and work. (not that all horses has to be ridden with a curb.. it is for higher schooling, and if you're not interested in that and just rides on a trail, or whatever reason, you shouldn't feel any pressure to teach yourself and the horse to use the curb.. I'm not ready for it yet, but I hope to be soon.)
Of course there can be a physical reason, but I think you should fix that no matter if you ride bitless or not. Problems in the mouth always gives tensions through the rest of the body, even if it's not shown directly in riding.

And something about ''real'' hackamores.. I hate it when that's the first bitless people try. Nobody puts a curb bit on a green horse, why put a curb bitless? ><
     
    11-03-2008, 06:04 PM
  #34
Zab
Yearling
As far as I know (correct me if I am wrong tho) bosals are rather stiff and hard? A ropehalter is not. The bosal gives a much different pressure.

A hackamore has metal shanks, wich gives the effect of a curb bit (but bitless of course) a ropehalter or bosal does not. Look at how it works; the parelli thing gives preassure on the nose and possibly sides of the nose, as do the bosal (but the bosal has more definerd pressure points, and yes, I know about the knts on the ropehalter). The hackamore gives preassure under the chin, on the neck and over the nose, in a way that makes the horse put his nose inwards if he listens to the aids.(the curb bit gives the preassure on the neck, chin and in the mouth, in the same way). A hackamore also has the effect that when you pull the rein, the horse feels it more than you. (the bosal does too, if I'm not mistaken.. but I don't know much of bosals tho. And they're not hackamores either.)

I'm not against riding in ropehalters, I've ridden and even jumped in them, but they are not hackamores.

If you mean the ''normal'' hackamore, remember it's a curb and has a different effect as a halter, bosal or muserola/cavesson. Both ropehalters and bosals are actually pretty harsh. Tried sidepull or riding cavesson if you want something gentle?
But as I said, nothing wrong with using them if your horse likes it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyWimps    
What would you consider a bosal then? Just curious... The Parelli hackamore (or rope halter as you two obviously perfer to call it) acts in the same way. You put the reins to where you would connect the lead rope and gives in the bosal effect.

Also yes it's $106 online at the Parelli website....but you can get off brands for half the price (that's what HAF got)


On the topic of the bitless bridle that JDI tried for Denny. I tried one bitless bridle for Sonny at the last barn...it was a hackamore of types with the metal shanks on the end (kinda different than the one you used) and he hated it. He'd toss his head when I asked to stop and tried as hard as he could to run through the pressure.
I haven't heard to many pros on the bitless bridle (meaning a bridle type material without the bit...like the one you used or the Dr Cooks...wait was that the name of it? I dunno.) I myself perfer either bosals or the Parelli Hackamore because they aren't as harsh and I found that they work better (at least for my horse)
     
    11-03-2008, 06:12 PM
  #35
Zab
Yearling
I'm so happy it worked out for you! :)
Of course it's worth a shot to try, but I rather try other bitless alternatives first (if it's one of the kindwith crossing ropes under the chin?)

Abut the saddle.. wht type of treeless? :/ One of those soft ones you need special pads under? Be very careful..I used one, made sure it fitted well and all, checked the girth several times. Without my horse doing anything special, on our 6th or so ride, it suddenly slid all over and I hung under his belly, shattered my wrist into 11 pieces and still don't have full mobility.
If you notice it feels the least unsteady or slide to the side during the ride, or if you get up from the ground, even if it's just an inch, please don't use it, for your own safety. I always get worried when I hear about people using them.. and often I hear comments like ''felt a bit unstable'' or ''slid a little when I got up but it's so nice'' and I dearly hope nothing will happen to them..
I'm still using a treeless, and I love it to pieces, but it's the much more stiff type and it doesn't slide no mater what I do. It also has panels under it like a normal saddle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emmasacha    
I had my first ride in my new Easy Trek bridle today (exactly the same as Dr Cook's but cheaper). I have to say I was a little unsure of what my horse might do because she can be an absolute nightmare sometimes. Never the less I got on and I loved it! We rode down the carpark and onto the common where I keep her, it's about 90 acres and has about 40 horses roaming it. She had about 5 minutes of wanting to trot and getting a bit joggy, I think this was because she suddenly realised she had no bit in her mouth, but then she settled right down and was really relaxed. At no point did I feel as though I had lost control and I walked, trotted and cantered her. This may not sound much but my mare can be very spooky and unpredictable when she is ridden out without another horse. I think the main thing I noticed was that if she looked at something she would shy but then go back to being relaxed. Normally she would spook and then take ages to calm down again. There is alot of scheptasism with these bridles but I have only ever read one bad review and I have tried it on a horse which is a challenge to ride, I think everyone should atleast give it a go. I have also just bought a treeless saddle but I'm going to get Sacha used to her bridle before I ride her in that as well. I don't want to blow her mind by changing all she knows in one day.
     
    11-03-2008, 06:40 PM
  #36
Zab
Yearling
Seen the spanish riding school in vienna? They (or at least lots of people riding more like them than normal dressage) starts out without a bit, with a riding cavesson or a muserola. You can still have contact and basically ride like with a bit, you can collect the horse, do shoulder ins and shoulder outs, and well. Work the same.

This picture is so very bad to show this, because I can't ride and all photos of the people that could is stuck on my other computer. My horse is very, very, very green on this picture and I'm not any better. He has never learnt to carry a rider (he was trained for racing but never started, and this is after a few months with riding maybe oce or twice a week, and almost no dressage; just walking to get used to the weight and so that I could learn to stop being nervous after falling off and shattering my wrist last year.

The first picture is how we looked in the start of the session, and then how I try to work him and (with my trainers instructions) make him go to the muserola and lift his back. I got so surpried when he did, I just released the reins and leaned forward.. XD So, if you look away from my crappy riding, and how green he is, I hope you can see that he is lifting his back and not just bending the neck? I hope to get better photos to show when he comes back from the ''boot camp'' :P



And as someone else answered; it's not much differense between pressure points on the nose or in the mouth.

I'm sorry I fell off the topic.. :3



Quote:
Originally Posted by My2Geldings    
It's seems it's really a horse and rider choice. I personally don't like the look of them, could not imagine showing in one so if I'm not going to ride in one, no point in getting one.
Also I don't understand how you can ride a horse properly without the mouth to elbow and hind end contact you need to balance out a horse?? How can you push that hind end forward thru your lower leg to get that if all you have is pressure points on the nose?
     
    11-03-2008, 07:05 PM
  #37
Foal
It seems to me that the old standards- the bosal, sidepull, jumping hack, and mechanical hack work just fine. These new bridles use strange pressure points and the "hugging" feeling around the horses head could cause them to panic.
     
    11-04-2008, 12:20 AM
  #38
Showing
Zab, thank you for all your informative posts... thank you for taking the time to type those out.
I agree that a rope halter is not a hackamore, they have completely different actions.
A bosal is a stiff teardrop shaped rawhide loop that you put around the horse's nose - so yes, it is quite severe.
I completely agree that putting a mechanical hack on a greenie makes about as much sense as putting a curb in a greenie, and yet people still do it... it's "bitless" so it must be nicer, right??

As for your pictures and referring to your horse - yes, that is how a lot of "classical" horses are trained - they get the horses going in a bitless (sidepull or bosal seems most common - I noticed you were using a sidepull) then once they had basic training, they were taught to accept a bit and work well with a bit. The bit was intorduced slowly though, and at times, both bosal/sidepull and a bit was used, but it was done in such a way that it was just used as a transition. I really like this method - and the horse is taught to use a bit.


I just find that a lot of people wanting to go bitless do so for the wrong reasons.


TVP - completely agree, and had a firsthand experience myself. I don't think Denny liked the feeling at all.
     
    11-04-2008, 07:57 AM
  #39
Zab
Yearling
I' using a muserola (a metal bar bar you screw onto/under the noseband) but it works pretty much like a sidepull. But riding cavesson is probably the closest to it:P Anyway, details.. x)

I like typing stuff out when I know about them..tho it's not that often people agree with me xD
I like that method too.. it seems like with the nowadays ''normal'' methods.. lots of people fail to teach horses how to react on the bit properly.. because they don't give it time? But this way, you almost have to teach it ''the right way''..

Yeah.. it's sad, because bitless can be a great option, but doing it for the wrong reasons mke the status of it drop to almosr zero. ><
     
    11-04-2008, 11:21 AM
  #40
Zab
Yearling
I can just as well talk about the differenses between a sidepull and a muserola as well. X) Seems I'm on a roll here.

The sidepull is as far as I know either soft leather or a stiff ''rope'' with rings on the sides? The soft leather of course gives a different pressure than a metal piece, the rope should give about the same, but since it's round it is a bit different.
But the main differense is how the rings are attached, on rthe sidepull they're simply sewn/tied onto the nose piece.
On the muserol they're screwed there and comes up a bit, which makes them a little sharper. The differense isn't that big on the one I use and a sidepull, I use the top one in the image below, but as you see you can chose ''longer'' rings and make it sharper, like the shanks on a bit but without any curb effect. (the screws don't show on the underside when it's fitted on the nosebans, the underside is smooth)


There are even muserolas, or serretas, with spikes on the underside. I'd never use them, because they're made to make the horse yield to the bit and avoid it, instead of seeking a slight contact and following it. I'd think twice before using the third muserola in the picture above too.


Looks nice, huh? :P But it's bitless, it must be good! ;)

I'm just saying this because I've noticed that a lot of people don't know about muserolas. The nicer kind are a good bitles option that gives as close as the snaffle signals as you can get without a snaffle.
     

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