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Bits are painful!

18K views 72 replies 36 participants last post by  mulepreacher 
#1 ·
I came across this video on YouTube about how bits are painful to all horses, even the simplist snaffles. What do you guys think of this take on bits?



(Hope the link works)
 
#34 ·
I think it depends on the hands their in.

My gelding prefers being ridden in a bit. He is not happy being ridden without. I tried.

My mare will take the bit out of your hand, even when I try to give it to my gelding.

Then again, I do my best to be light handed and have received comments from multiple trainers about how quiet my hands are.
 
#35 ·
Thanks you all for responding. It's very interesting to read all of these posts. I think most of us are of the mind that 'bits can cause pain, but it all depends on the hands on the reins.' I guess I have a follow-up question to the video then. The video makes it seem like every time any pressure is put on the reins the snaffle bows upwards and hits the top of the horse's mouth, causing pain. Do you think this representation of the bit mechanics is accurate or inaccurate?
Thanks guys!
 
#36 · (Edited)
^^ Inaccurate. See the pictures below:



A single joint will put more pressure on the bars and less on the tongue. Many horses prefer the french link, with 2 joints, that puts pressure on the tongue but less on the bars. My mare preferred a single joint to a double joint snaffle, and prefers a Billy Allen curb to either style of snaffle.

I saw an X-ray a few months ago showing the link pushing into the tongue, not the top of the mouth. It depends on the angles and how much pressure is put on the bit and at what angle.

Remember, pressures and 'pain' are relative. I can happily go an entire ride without pulling the reins back. But if a horse tries to bolt - a situation that can kill both horse & rider - then yes, I may pull very hard. I've never injured a horse's mouth, but I have removed much of the hair off the nose with a bitless bridle...

If a horse is trying to spin and bolt - something my mare used to do a lot - then "whatever it takes" is the safest thing for both of us.

I typically use a bit like the one below. The roller over the joint prevents any nutcracker action, while the sides can move independently of each other. It provides room for her tongue, which my horse likes, and she can play with the roller when nervous or bored. But a different horse might hate the bit below!



Any bit can be harsh, just as a bitless bridle can be. And sometimes, "harsh" beats the alternative: an out of control horse endangering itself and its rider!

Notice the pained expression on her face as we check out a new used saddle for the first time:

 
#37 ·
Ugh, that video just grates on my very last nerve LOL. So much misinformation and so many assumptions. As for your most recent question regarding the bit hitting the roof of the mouth...I believe it's possible given the just perfect combination of factors including a horse with a narrow lower jaw and an exceptionally low palate combined with just the right angle of the head and just the right amount of pressure. BUT, I don't believe that it's a common occurrence at all.

Yes, bits can cause pain....but so can bitless bridles and halters and saddles and crops and boots and breast collars or any number of other tack or equipment....if it's used improperly or doesn't fit.

Being kind to your horse doesn't mean using this or that particular piece of equipment like a bitless bridle or halter or whatever, it means educating yourself so that you can use all pieces of equipment properly to minimize or prevent discomfort. It also means paying close enough attention to your horses that you can discover their preferences regarding tack and tack fit.

I mean, every one of these horses are being ridden in bits, either single jointed snaffles like shown in the video or curb bits not so different from what Bsms just posted a picture of, and they are all just as content and happy as can be. No resistance, no discomfort, no fear.

Snaffle, early in training


Curb, later in training


Curb on a seasoned horse


Snaffle on an older horse because that's what he prefers instead of a curb


Older mare approx. 30 days into training.


This mare was exceptionally uncomfortable with any bit when I first got her due to her past experiences, but a little bit of time and correct handling and she ended up quiet and responsive and happy in any bit I put her in. This pic is about 45 days into training.


Of course, you also have to take into account what the horse prefers and their mouth conformation. Horses with a low palate will often prefer something with multiple joints or a mullen or low port mouth so that there's no interference with their palate. Horses with a thick tongue might like something with a single joint or a high port. Some horses prefer tongue pressure while others prefer bar pressure. Some horses like rollers and some like simple solid mouths. Some horses like a bit to hang lower in their mouth and other horses like the bit to be right up tight against their lips.

This horse hates it if I have the bit high enough to contact the corners of his mouth. He likes it hanging down so that he can pick it up and put it right where he wants it. You can see the big gap between the two really well in this picture. There are a lot of folks who would say "You should get that bit up where it's supposed to be, with a wrinkle in the corner of his mouth". I simply ask them "Why should I do that if it aggravates my horse? He's happy and responsive with it hanging down. Is it worth it to have the bit up where it's 'supposed' to be if it ticks him off?"
 
#39 ·
If you put enough force on a snaffle bit then it will 'nutcracker' like that but that would take you back to the thing most of us have said - bad hands and incorrect training is the cause of pain and not the bit when used correctly
 
#42 ·
Uhhh, people!!!! I was shocked to see so many love stories about curb bits. Most people can't even have soft hands in snaffles (including myself), let alone leverage bits! Reading all these stories about how my horse only listens to curb bits, or the Tom Thumb bit made my horse respect me is just sickening. If your horse won't listen to you unless you cause pain, there's something majorely wrong.
And if your horse is so happy in a snaffle and you barely have to use the reins at all, why do you need a bit? It doesn't make much sense.
For what it's worth, I agree with the video, but there are exceptions to every rule. Excellent riders (I mean 40+ years of experience here, people) can probably ride in a snaffle without hurting their horse (but why would they want to?). The reason everyone has problems such as bolting, bucking, head tossing, ect., is because your horse is in pain.
 
#44 ·
"How old are you?"
I'm in high school.
Yes, I know by just telling you that, you will completely diregard what I have to say because I am so young and inexperienced :)
I know I'm inexperienced. I know that I make mistakes with my horse daily. But I also know that I am not experienced enough the guarentee my horse comfort by using a bit. I just don't have the hands for that. And why would I want to put metal in my horse's mouth when there is a safer and more comfortable option?
I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just have strong opinions :D
 
#46 ·
When you get some more time you will see that there is no single tool that does it all. Every horse is different and require a different communication tool to understand the message. If a bit is causing pain it is NOT being used correctly. Period!! IMHO.
 
#45 ·
When you get some more experience, you'll realize that it's not the tool you use, but how you use it.

Bad hands are just as harsh on a bitless bridle or a halter as they are on a snaffle and/or curb bit.

I've seen bruised and bleeding mouths...but I've also seen skinned/swollen and bleeding faces.

The age old question: which is better, bits or bitless?

My answer? The knowledge to use your chosen tool correctly.

Barring any physical reason why a bit would be uncomfortable for the horse, then the responsibility lies solely in the hands on the reins. You can be soft in a curb bit or harsh in a halter...or the other way around.

The tool doesn't matter. If you know how to use it correctly, then there will be no discomfort to the horse.
 
#47 ·
I understand all of you and already agree. My point is not that snaffle bits are completely bad, but most people just don't know how to use them. I've seen people shaking their heads wondering why their horse tosses their head or rears and then I see that they have tight reins and are constantly in their horse's face.
And what happens if your horse steps on his reins while wearing a bit? What happens if your falling off and you are yanking on the reins? Your horse's mouth gets severly injured, that's what happens.
My question again, Why would you want to use a bit? What benefit other than a false sense of control and that you must wear one in a show ring?
 
#51 ·
I understand all of you and already agree. My point is not that snaffle bits are completely bad, but most people just don't know how to use them. I've seen people shaking their heads wondering why their horse tosses their head or rears and then I see that they have tight reins and are constantly in their horse's face.

And how is that the bit's fault? I've seen horses do the exact same things when being ridden in a bosal or a halter or a "calm and gentle" bitless bridle. That is a rider problem, not a tack problem. Regardless of whether they are in a snaffle or a bitless, the horse is still in pain.


And what happens if your horse steps on his reins while wearing a bit? What happens if your falling off and you are yanking on the reins? Your horse's mouth gets severly injured, that's what happens.

What happens if they get step in a hole? What happens if they slip in some mud? What happens if they get tangled in hidden wire? What if they trip and fall while loping along?

Things happen. Sometimes it results in injury and sometimes it doesn't. Whenever my horse steps on a bridle rein, he gives to the pressure of the bit, stops, and steps back off of the rein. BUT, I also train my horses to not move if I leave a bridle rein loose and if I suspect that they might, I don't drop the rein on the ground.

As for falling off, if I fall, then the horse likely did something to unseat me like bucking or spooking big. In that event, then the bump in the mouth might help to teach him not to do it again. You might think that reasoning harsh, but when you've been riding colts as long as I have, you'll appreciate every little thing that makes them think "Oh, maybe that wasn't such a good idea"....and you'd appreciate not having to walk 2-3+ miles back to the barn or to find the horse, especially if you're injured.



My question again, Why would you want to use a bit? What benefit other than a false sense of control and that you must wear one in a show ring?
The bit has absolutely nothing to do with control. Training is what creates the control. If a horse has bad training, then the strongest bit on the planet won't make him do what you want him to do. For goodness sake, the average horse outweighs me by nearly 10 times. I can't force them to do anything that they don't want to.

I can ride my horses in anything from a string around their neck to a halter to a snaffle to a curb. The difference is in the clarity of communication. In a string or a halter, I actually have to put pressure on the horse's face or neck to try to make clear what I'm asking. In the snaffle, I don't have to apply pressure, but I still have to be big with my cues to get them to understand. In a curb bit, getting exactly what I want is often as easy as moving my hand a couple of inches or using a pinky to pick up on one rein just a bit, just enough to pick up a bit of the slack.

The difference is in the clarity of the cues. For a good rider, riding in a halter or something similar is about like trying to talk using those old tin can telephones with the string strung between them. Sure, you can hear what the other person is saying...mostly, but it's muted and often garbled and you have to really concentrate to try to decipher what they're saying so your responses are slow and you might answer a question wrong because you aren't sure what they are asking. On the other hand, a curb bit is about like a digital telephone where you can whisper and the other person years you perfectly clear.

Is it better to yell with a simple tool or whisper with a more advanced one?
 
#48 ·
And what happens if your horse steps on his reins while wearing a bit? What happens if your falling off and you are yanking on the reins? Your horse's mouth gets severly injured, that's what happens.
I just have to answer this one.

My poor horse. My poor, overly tolerant horse. My poor, overly tolerant, too good for me horse, stepped on his right rein when it slipped out of my hand on our second ride in his snaffle bit. I felt so bad but I could not stop laughing because he was being SUCH a good boy and just kept turning in circles... like the rein trapped under his hoof was asking him to do. He could have reared (although he never has), he could have freaked.... but all he did was turn in circle after circle. :lol:

And that was our first and LAST adventure in attempting to use split reins. :wink:
 
#52 ·
Yes, of course your horse stops bolting in a curb- she's in pain!!!
She's fights anything softer because she's learned - if I am to put it bluntly- that her rider is not capable of correcting and redirecting a bolt without pain. Yes, the curb works. But is it the best thing for your horse? Bitless riding requires more preparing and thinking on the rider's part. But in the long run, it's better for the horse. And isn't that what we all want?
 
#53 ·
Like has been said. A bit does not give you the control. No one can over power a horse with a bit. It is not physically possible for most people. The bit is mearly a communication tool. It is the phone line to relay a message to the horse. If someone is resorting to "screaming" with the reins there is a hole in the training or lack of knowledge on the rides part. That is not the tools fault it is the riders fault.
 
#54 ·
smrobs, I wil just have to agree to disagree. You can whisper in a halter just as easily as in a curb. I've seen it done and done it myself.
And yes, horses fall in holes, get tangled in wire. But we make sure our pastures are as hole- free as possible right? We don't fence with barbed wire, right? We don't go galloping through a new feild with tall grass, right? We take precautions to limit injuries to our horses, so how is a bit any different?
 
#55 ·
hottamalegirl, do you take your horse's preferences into consideration rather than your own when it comes to bitting?
Based off of your posts it seems to me that you assume that all horses prefer bitless and snaffles.
 
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#56 ·
No, she doesn't stop because she is in pain. If the bit caused significant pain, she wouldn't accept the bit the next time. For example, she doesn't like snaffles with fat links. I found that out because after a couple of rides, she wouldn't open her mouth for the bit. She would twist her head to avoid it. But she doesn't do that with one of those cruel curb bits.

"She's fights anything softer because she's learned - if I am to put it bluntly- that her rider is not capable of correcting and redirecting a bolt without pain."

That sounds like someone who hasn't much time on a bolting horse. To put it bluntly, you need to try dealing with a horse who bolts frequently before you decide what will or will not deal with a bolt.

It also means you do not understand how bits operate in the horse's mouth. Have you ever heard of the phrase 'he has the bit in his teeth'? It isn't as common as it used to be, but it means a person who won't listen...and guess where it comes from? That's right. If a horse grabs a snaffle bit with its teeth - which they can do - then the snaffle is about as effective as a sidepull halter: not at all. But with a curb bit, the bridle will still apply pressure to the poll, and the curb strap allows the rider to leverage the horse's head to a more vertical position. That brings their binocular vision closer to them, and they tend to slow to stay within the bounds of their vision.

That is how the curb bit got its name. Curb means "to restrain". A curb bit is mechanically more effective at convincing a horse to stop than a snaffle, and either is more effective than a sidepull halter, or a bridle that puts pressure under the jaw.

A curb does not work through pain. The pressure on the poll is something almost all horses are used to because of how a halter works - and they get release from pressure on the poll by bringing their head down and softening. That cue - soften in response to pressure on the poll - is used almost universally by every halter. Thousands of repetitions as they walk in a halter make it an instinctive habit. And the pressure on the poll that a curb bit gives doesn't stop until the rider releases the reins.

A curb bit is less instinctive for turning a horse than a snaffle, but more instinctive for stopping a horse. That is why we normally teach a horse to turn and learn to neck rein in a snaffle instead of a curb, but why curbs can work well at teaching a horse to not bolt.

And if you have a spooky, bolting horse who is a danger to herself and others, then getting her to stop reliably is critical for her safety and life. Without it, she is likely to end up on a one way trip to Mexico. But if you can stop her when she is afraid, you can train her to stop being afraid, or at least not to respond to her fears in a way that is dangerous. And then you can teach her that the scary things are not scary, so she should listen to her rider.

"Bitless riding requires more preparing and thinking on the rider's part. But in the long run, it's better for the horse."

Again: I rode bitless for 3 years. It was not better for the horse. It was far worse for Mia, and not helpful to Trooper. The problem is that people put utter drivel on the Internet, and sell their LIES to people who do not know better.

Look at the picture of Trooper & I bitless. Notice how much control of the nose a sidepull halter gives you:



None. You cannot tip the nose in. You cannot tip the nose down. It has all the finesse of doing surgery with a 2-by-4. With some exceptions, horses follow their noses. (Yes, a horse can bolt with its nose against your knee...I've done it). Many bitless options give you no mechanical control over the nose. The crossunder styles put pressure UNDER the jaw - and most horses learn to move AWAY from pressure - so their design tends to tell the horse to raise its head instead of soften it. They also do not release pressure instantly, which makes it harder to tell the horse when it is doing the right thing - pressure and release requires good timing on the release. Mechanical hackamores can break a horse's nose if not adjusted correctly.

I haven't seen a bitless option that cues the horse as precisely as a snaffle, nor have I seen one as good at cueing a horse to soften and bring its nose down as a curb bit.

In the end, bit are NOT about pain. They are about communication, and training a horse with easily recognized cues to respond even if it isn't in the mood. Ultimately, control comes from a habit of obedience - a habit so strong that the horse will respond even if it is afraid. That means training, and enough successful repetition that the horse will respond to your cues and stay safe.

A curb bit does not work through pain. It gives a clear signal in the mouth, and follows it with something most horses understand - poll pressure. It ultimately provides some leverage to help bring a horse's vision closer to its feet, slowing the horse. Not pain.

You cannot whisper as effectively in a halter as in a bit. The mechanics are against you. You might as well use a fat crayon instead of a fine point pen...

"smrobs, I wil just have to agree to disagree."

smrobs has vastly more experience than I do, and I'm pretty sure I have far more than you do. Agreeing to disagree with someone who has far greater experience than you do is not a good way to go through life...:?
 
#58 ·
bsms, my horse used to bolt all the time. I've fallen off of her twice from her bolts. Now that I've actually taken the time to understand her, she hasn't done it in over a year.
And who cares if your horse looks pretty or carries their head a certain way? All that matters is if you can control them effectively.
 
#59 ·
Alright everyone, done for today. Don't have any energy left!! :D
Seroiusly though, I get where everyone's coming from, but I don't agree. Yes, you all probably have more experience- in tranditional horse methods. I've chosen a new path.
And, uhh, bsms, reins aren't meant to be that short in a rope halter.
Okay, I'll just stop with my posts that you all think are nonsense and it's just a phase I will soon grow out of.
Bye! :)
 
#64 ·
You aren't understanding the 'design' of the horses head if you think that pressure from a bit is going to be harder than pressure on its nose from anything that works that way to restrain or control. The nasal bone that protects the soft issue underneath it is way thinner than the jaw bone and its actually a lot easier to damage the nasal bone than it is to damage the jaw bone
If you have good hands and balance then you aren't going to hurt a horses mouth at all but heavy hands will cause as much damage on the nose as they will on the mouth
 

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#60 · (Edited)
Curing a horse of bolting is not about "understanding" your horse. If the horse has a problem with blind fear, it requires teaching the horse to listen to the rider instead of its fears. That means maintaining some semblance of control even when the horse is getting scared.

I said nothing about putting a horse in a pretty headset. You have far better control of a horse if you can control its nose than if you do not. Control of the nose IS a big part of controlling a horse. And sidepull halters give you no control over the nose.

This is my world:



A horse who bolts in a place like that is risking her life and her rider's. Being able to stop her almost immediately - and in a straight line - is one of the kindest things I could do for her.

"And, uhh, bsms, reins aren't meant to be that short in a rope halter."

Ummm...if your horse is excited about cantering, like Trooper was that day, and you want him to slow down, slack in the reins won't help. That is part of the problem with sidepulls - they work best in a horse who is already well behaved. They don't work so well with an excited horse.

"NO horse LIKES a bit."

You base that on how many horses? Look at my avatar. Does she look like she is upset over having a horrible bit in her mouth? What about here - pain? Notice SHE pulled the slack out of the left rein:

 
#61 ·
My mare dose not listen well bitless. I can ride her bitless but I dont expect nice brakes or a well behaved horse (or any grace). It normally ends in head tossing, bolting and a 40 foot stop (Or no stop). She acts better in her tom thumb on a loose rein then with me putting a dent in her nose bitless. I have ridden her in a snaffle (She dose NOT like it but will tolerate it) I have ridden her in a curb (if i want her ears in my face) Bitless (i get ears in my face, bolting and jigging). The best result is her tom thumb as she will listen on a loose rein. Do i ride trails bitless? Yeah sometimes, but if she is being fresh she gets a bit. I currently use a Dr. Cook style, I have used a sidepull, but her side pull rope halter works better, and I have seen her past owner use a hack, NOT going to try that as she WILL try to flip herself over. Some horses work well bitless, some don't.
 
#63 ·
Potentially getting killed or the animal getting killed over producing some pain (should be temporary) via mouth when bolting???? yeah no brainer there. Then retraining must happen after the incident to correct the behavior. Not relying on the pain causing method for breaks.
 
#65 ·
First off, I don't hang a snaffle bit low as many western riders do. It's up where it forms a tiny crease behind the lip (the smallest hint of a smile. I tried hanging it lower just to see what the horse would do and he held it where I normally put it. In the use of any bit, hands have to be quiet and not used to assist with balance. If the hands are motionless, the horse will tip his nose to relieve pressure. Riders often think they've lost contact and will shorten the reins. I've played around with horses that were considered hard mouthed and found them to get very responsive in a snaffle to turning by merely ticking the rein with my pinky. Once they caught on they'd turn on a dime. Barely moving the rein sent the signal to the horse's mouth, and it would respond. No cruelty in that.
 
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