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Bosals/Hacks/Side-Pulls

11K views 68 replies 16 participants last post by  Sunny06 
#1 ·
Please tell me everything you can about bosals, hacks, and side-pulls. I was thinking about using something bitless but I don't have much experience in that area...Thanks!
 
#2 ·
If I was going to go bitless completely and wanted something more than a rope halter, I would definitely go with a bosal. Of course though, I am a western rider and sidepulls strike me as much more of an english thing (not sure though). As for hacks, I think that there are different kinds. I will stick with western as that is what I know. There are what are called "loping hackamores" which are basically just a soft rope version of a bosal and there are mechanical hackamores. I personally don't like the mechanical hacks at all. There are certain people and certain horses that use them and get along great but I just don't like them cause they have the potential to be incredibly harsh.

I don't know if you are looking for something for just pleasure riding or for showing/competing but I just use a rope halter and lead rope reins when I want to go bitless during pleasure rides.
 
#5 ·
If I was going to go bitless completely and wanted something more than a rope halter, I would definitely go with a bosal. Of course though, I am a western rider and sidepulls strike me as much more of an english thing (not sure though). As for hacks, I think that there are different kinds. I will stick with western as that is what I know. There are what are called "loping hackamores" which are basically just a soft rope version of a bosal and there are mechanical hackamores. I personally don't like the mechanical hacks at all. There are certain people and certain horses that use them and get along great but I just don't like them cause they have the potential to be incredibly harsh.

I don't know if you are looking for something for just pleasure riding or for showing/competing but I just use a rope halter and lead rope reins when I want to go bitless during pleasure rides.
^^ I'm really glad to hear that a bosal was the best because I was starting to hear really good things about them..For hacks,just now I've already ruled them out--Potentielly dangerous", "can hurt horse's nose and breatheing tubes", etc..We do mostly trail riding [pleasure riding], and he is seriously herd-bound; he will jump off a cliff whith me hanging on his mouth just to have his nose back in his bud's butt, so I needed something with power, but I also wanted something that can be mild at the same time and it sounds like a bosal is just that..Right?
 
#4 ·
I used sidepull on my girls to start them. HOWEVER my paint didn't like it, and after I switched them to the bit and tried to go back to sidepull my qh didn't like it either. I used the gentlest possible sidepull (just like a wide leather halter with reins attached - awesome hand-made thing for the price I got on ebay). I tried bosals once, but my horses are not trained to neck-rein so it didn't work for me. Also personally I don't like the pull on nose for either bosal, true sidepull (with the stiff piece on nose), and I absolutely dislike mechanical hackamores. You have to have very soft hands to use the mechanical hack.

Just wondering WHY do you want to go without bit? Any teeth problems or something?
 
#6 ·
Just wondering WHY do you want to go without bit? Any teeth problems or something?
^^ Well, there are a few reasons:
1) I wanted to try something new..I simply cannot find an adequate bit for him that has a little power, but can be mild too...I've been working with him in the ring with a snaffle, hoping he could maybe use it for a while and see, but I really think he might like something bitless.
2) He throws his head with 90% percent of the bits I've tryed with him.Most of them are simple grazing curbs..Nothing specal. I recently have just been retraining him in the ring with just a halter and a Slow Twist D Ring Snaffle.
3) Believe it or not, there are no teeth problems that I know of..He just got them floated a few weeks ago.The throwing the head business is simply him trying to get around/above/below the bit so he can get back to his friends.
 
#7 ·
As long as it is fitted correctly and used correctly I believe the bosal is the best. It goes off of leverage, but you can use direct reins if necessary. Next I would say the side pull. I'm not very familiar with these, but I prefer the bosal because of it's leverage. I would never use a mechanical hackamore. I feel they are more severe than neccesary and can be cruel. Even though in soft hands nothing has to be cruel. However, if you have soft hands and good horsemanship you don't need such a strong device. And even soft hands must be firm in an emergency situation or when a horse spooks, ect and then the horse will have undergone unjust pain. That's just my opinion.
 
#10 ·
Oh, and he DOES neck rein! Eek..how do you edit your posts?
 
#11 ·
A bosal has the potential to have more bite than a rope halter because it is harder and less flexible. I won't guarantee that it would work because it may not. When he tries to take off, you might try doing one rein stops over and over. It has helped my hot QH quite a bit.
 
#14 ·
Did you try to ride by yourself on trail? How does he behave then? Some horses just do much better on their own. How does he behave in ring with other horses there?

As for bit, well I use french link eggbutt snaffle on both my horses (one is fast/nervous/go-go on trail). I don't believe in harsher bits to solve the problem, frankly. May be other people will come up with the better suggestions. :)
 
#17 ·
Did you try to ride by yourself on trail? How does he behave then? Some horses just do much better on their own. How does he behave in ring with other horses there?

As for bit, well I use french link eggbutt snaffle on both my horses (one is fast/nervous/go-go on trail). I don't believe in harsher bits to solve the problem, frankly. May be other people will come up with the better suggestions. :)
^^He ride GREAT by himself, but I ride with my family a lot so it is kind of hard to ride by myself..He does pretty good in the ring wether there are horses or not.. Actually, I was thinking about letting a horse loose in the ring while we worked so he can get used to them being a round..I HATE switching bits, but I've tried everything! Right now we've been working in the ring with a snaffle, so that might help some things. I will keep everybody posted and keep updating how he [we] are doing:) I DO NOT feel safe riding him in a halter, because he will spontaneously start bucking or acting stupid if he knows he can get way with something..And it just so happens that he dose it when I'm BAREBACK!! Smart horse..:P
I'll keep everybody posted:]
 
#15 · (Edited)
I totally love my Dr. Cooks bitless bridle. That said I started riding my finished mare in it just for giggles. Note-we do nothing but trail ride. She does fine except...She forgot how to neck rein :-( I switched reins too so that may have something to do with it, but she neck reins much better with my bit.
I've ridden her on the trails with just a rope halter. She did ok but again better with the bit. She goes well off the leg as far as steering goes, its the stop that suffers. Vida has never had a good whoa, we did mostly one reins the first year I had her :lol: I haven't had problems collecting her up or slowing down. Its that fast stop that I think suffers. Sorry I guess thats more of a training issue than a tack issue :oops:
Now on my 3 year olds. Thats all they have been ridden in. They both have great whoas. Its the steering on them that we are working on. I think thats why the Dr. Cooks works so well, it controls the whole head rather than just the mouth/nose or poll. Out of the 3, hackamore, bosal and the bitless, I think the bitless is the mildest and least painful. The sidepull is again just controlling the nose instead of the whole head.
It really comes down to the individual horse and rider which works best is what I'm getting to in a really long winded way :lol:
Here is Saro with the Dr. Cooks on her first ever trail ride
 

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#16 ·
I totally agree with Vidaloco. I use the Dr. Cooks as well and they are very effective. But I must stress that there is much more to stopping than just a "whoa" and then contact on the reins.

And, of course, there are pros and cons with all types of tack, so you need to find out what will work and what won't for you and your horse.

Here is the link for the Dr. Cook's bitless bridles www.bitlessbridle.com

One of my main reasons to go with this brand is because Dr. Cook is a vet and has scientific and medical research to promote his bridle. I also recommend that you read "Metal in the Mouth" written by Dr. Cook and Dr. Strasser. Very informative and for me, I vowed I would never put a bit in a horse's mouth again.

Let us know how you make out and what you decide to use!
 
#18 ·
Sounds like he sounds smart enough to figure out when it's time to misbehave. :) I think lots of work eventually solve the problem. In any case - good luck!
 
#19 ·
We use a bosal on one of the schooling horses where I take lessons, he has cancer on the side of his mouth and he's getting older so he just couldn't take the bit in his mouth, it kept bleeding after lessons all the time. He's old but he's still got plenty of spunk! So we needed something that wasn't going to affect his mouth, but that we could still use in case he got a little frisky, so we got a bosal made for him and he does great in it! We ride him, jump him, and do schooling shows with him wearing it no problem.
 
#20 ·
Update:
Well, yesterday I rode Sunny in the ring and was practicing gait control. Staying in gait, staying in walk,etc. He would NOT stay in his gait, he kept wanting to canter. Everytime he would do that I would do a one-rein stop. He was not catching on. I got VERY discouraged. I had my mom come up to ring. She is a riding teacher but mostly teaches beginning little kids, so I never thought about asking her to help me; so I explained the problem and she got on to try her luck at it. The girth was really loose,so when she tried to turn him in a biggish circle, he dived around thinking she wanted a one-rein stop, and she almost came off because she wasn't expecting that! He actually anticipated it! That's when I realized I was turning in too small a circle. He was going to hurt himself. So she practiced a minute getting him re-accustomed to turning in a large circle. Actually he started catching on. Then I got on and tried it. We started out rusty, but got better going-in-a-circle-wise. What I really wanted was for him to do better gait-control, but it just takes time. We will keep working on it:)
 
#21 ·
I don't know much about bosals, but for an emergency break, mechanial hackamores are better; I think. (Tho I find bosals pretty harsh.. :/ ) They're (hacks) are not dangerous to the horse if you just fit it right; about an inch or so above the point where the nosebone breaks. The hackamore itself doesn't cut the air of the horse, but if you use it to tuck the nose in without getting the horse to relax, the throat won't fit freely between the cheek and the neck, and that can cause the air flow to get worse..

But stopping a horse by just pulling the reins isn't a good idea, remember to sit right, and so on :) The best way I know is to squeese with the top of your leg (thigh and knee), be un-yielding and go against the horses motion, then if that doesn't work, add the rein firmly (not yankning tho) untill the horse stops. Imediate release and relax your body (you might have to stop him immediatly again tho since relaxing could be taken as ''it's ok to go again'').

It's strange how much a small thing does, like this horse I couldn't stop.. I just remembered to sit better and he stopped without touching the reins.

Good job to work on the stops and obdiense, that's the most important thing when you have a problem :)
 
#22 ·
I don't know much about bosals, but for an emergency break, mechanial hackamores are better; I think. (Tho I find bosals pretty harsh.. :/ ) They're (hacks) are not dangerous to the horse if you just fit it right; about an inch or so above the point where the nosebone breaks. The hackamore itself doesn't cut the air of the horse, but if you use it to tuck the nose in without getting the horse to relax, the throat won't fit freely between the cheek and the neck, and that can cause the air flow to get worse..

But stopping a horse by just pulling the reins isn't a good idea, remember to sit right, and so on :) The best way I know is to squeese with the top of your leg (thigh and knee), be un-yielding and go against the horses motion, then if that doesn't work, add the rein firmly (not yankning tho) untill the horse stops. Imediate release and relax your body (you might have to stop him immediatly again tho since relaxing could be taken as ''it's ok to go again'').

It's strange how much a small thing does, like this horse I couldn't stop.. I just remembered to sit better and he stopped without touching the reins.

Good job to work on the stops and obdiense, that's the most important thing when you have a problem :)
^^ A while ago I would have considered the mech. hack, but I have heard SOOO many bad things about them that I don't want to take the chance..Thanks for the stopping advice:)
 
#23 ·
It's your decission. :) I wouldn't ride with a bosal..on the other hand, my horse don't know neckreining and I'm using the reins quite much in my riding. Not pulling them or forcing with them, but light touches for flexion and bending and so on..I doubt a bosal would be of any use for that. ^^
 
#24 ·
^^ Well, my horse neck reins very well. I've heard that bosals are good for neck-reiners..Idk.:) I'll have to talk with a bunch or people to get their opinons , then average them all out..Thanx for the imput:) Good luck with your horse..Haha gait-wise.
 
#25 ·
Yupyup, best to pick the tool that works best for you, not what works best for someone else :P Of course is info and opinions always good to hear :)
Thanks :)
 
#26 ·
Mechanical hackamores depend entirely on the length of the shanks, exactly like a curb bit. It also depends on the noseband. A harsh rawhide noseband with big shanks has the potential to create serious damage.

I honestly think you'd enjoy using a short shanked flat band hackamore. We use them on our horses and they're magical. It's the only thing I've found works with my extremely hotheaded on trails Arab mare. She can school in a snaffle, but on trails, she'll destroy my hands because she's convinced we need to be in front. I tried using a tom thumb snaffle but was very concerned about the damage I was causing since I still had to ride with a snug rein, and it created a lot of head tossing.

Since I switched her to a short shanked hack, it's been magical. Because of the fleecy soft noseband, the pinching of the nostrils doesn't happen like it does with rawhide on big hacks and bosals. Your control is coming from the pressure of the noseband, and the curb chain. They're extremely similair to "English hacks" you see showjumpers using. And because of the short shanks, you CAN revert to straight reining if neccesary. Not advised, but it's much easier for them to understand. In my experience it has a ton of "whoa" with very little negative response from the horse. We've ridden some of our crew in long shanked hacks and experienced a lot of head tossing and nervousness, and yet they're happy as clams in a short shanked.

However, depending on the sensitivity of the horse, the short shanked IS mild enough for them to somewhat "ignore" if they choose to. For my Arab, it's an ideal solution since she's so sensitive, she responds 110% better to pressure points then she does metal in the mouth. But Shay-las big Mustang/Appaloosa mare has the sensitivity of a rock and she can flat out ignore it if she's determined to get somewhere. So that shows how "mild" it is - I haven't met a horse alive that can ignore a big tough rawhide hack.



Short shanked hack on my Arab mare. You can see the gentle fleece lined noseband that prevents pinching, but the curb chain gives you that bit of "oomph" for horses who like to think about forgetting to listen to you :lol:



 
#27 ·
(Tho since the noseband is soft, it forms after the nose = presses down more on the nostrils than the rawhide/sturdy versions. Besides, the padding/fleece does two things; prefent rubs on sensetive horses, and presses the nostrils down more ;) However.. no hackammore is pinching nostrils if it's placed on the right part of the nose. Yours looks about right :) The ''suffocating'' issue with hackamores is that they easily make the horse just break off in the neck and at the same time lock it's jaw = hard to breathe, especially on ponys with thick necks. Try clenching your teeth together and then pull your chin down, like a horse in a high rollkur frame. Same thing can happen with any bit, but a hot horse in a hackamore and with a nervous rider that pulls back, it's bound to happen. Only if the rider lets it tho, like with any bit :)

And the rawhide or bike chains have a more severe and clear contact on the top of the nose.

Anyway, you seem to have most of the info right, it's just that hackamores, also ''soft'' ones, ARE harsher than people thinks. They're effective and nice tools in the right hands and has been a relief to many horses as well - but they're strong, severe bits/bitless and you need to know that when using it. :)
And I've seen too many people changing from a soft, well working snaffle to a hackamore, only because they believe hackamores are gentler.. and then they're overjoyed when the horse bends the neck and breaks of at the third vertebrae instead of working correctly. :3

But hacks are very good in the right hands, and they certainly doesn't break the nose bone or anything if they're placed right, not even the sturdy ones.
 
#28 ·
Update:

Well, as I think I already mentioned, we have been practicing making bigger turns, and turning in a circle if he goes too fast. Well, when I was riding him yesterday, I kept more contact at the gait to see if that worked, because he is used to contact when he is gaiting. It actually worked a little better, but I really didn't like the idea of constantly being "in his mouth". I wasn't necesarilly IN/SAWING on his mouth, but his mouth had opened a lil bit (I'm now using a cavison and slobble straps). SO: Should I work on contact or no contact? It is an endles battle of stupidity..He wil simply not catch on! :cry: Oh well--I guess that's why horses go into training for 30-90 days--they take a while to catch on..And he is usally a fast learner too..Oh wells..I'll just have to keep working..

I'm thinking about maybe using these [afterward]:
Bitless:
1) Bosal/Mecate
2) Maybe English Hack..Not sure yet..Still looking around..
3) Adjustable Nose Hackamore Bit..?? ^^

Bit:
1) High Port 'C' Bit
2) Simple Eggbut
3) Slow Twist D Ring Snaffle

Any suggestions on bits? Any more hacks?
Thanks:)
 
#29 ·
Avoid any twisted bits unless you need it for safety reasons, even slow twists are much harsher than you first think, since they scratch against the bar of the horses mouth.

I'm not sure what the other bits are, nor the 3d bitless :P

But think through; what do you need the bit to help you with?
 
#31 ·
Avoid any twisted bits unless you need it for safety reasons, even slow twists are much harsher than you first think, since they scratch against the bar of the horses mouth.

I'm not sure what the other bits are, nor the 3d bitless :P

But think through; what do you need the bit to help you with?
^^ Ha! How about STOPPING! Lol. It's not the kind of twist you're thinking of..It's a SLOW twist--it is only twisted like, once. Not multiple times..
 
#30 ·
I'm so glad other people jumped in to defend the mechanical hackamore! I was really upset when I saw it immediately labeled as potentially dangerous. A nylon halter is potentially dangerous when left on a horse in a turnout and so is just about any piece of equipment used with horses. That said, the mech hack is such good brakes. You don't need to stomp them, just tap. With that said if your horse isn't stopping when you apply enough pressure to constrict their nasal passages to the point of suffocation you are the problem. The only way I could see that happening is a stiff/heavy person continued to pull on the hackamore after the horse had stopped. I have used them in a variety of situations but on just about any horse on the trail. They give me plenty of whoa and just enough steering that they can walk on a long rein for most of the time. There are many things in the horse world that get a bad rap, when really we should be evaluating the people using the devices, not the device itself. A bit is only as harsh as the persons hands, and the horse shouldn't feel a thing until you apply pressure.
 
#32 ·
The thing is with shanks, that the pressure you apply is stronger on the horse than your hands.
Especially true wih pessoa bits - the rider doesn't feel anything while the horse feels A LOT.. :/

But I agree to most; pretty much all bits are good for the use they were designed for, not many are made just to inflict pain.
 
#35 ·
This is what I use on Crow sometimes. Now, he's easy to stop but it works like a bitless pelham and could be used for your reasons too :) I use the curb/hackamore rein for other things than stopping, personally.
This one is the one I've most often gotten that wonderful gait in, this or a muserola+curb combination. (Know that he gaits on a slack rein, ith a raised back and arched neck, when he does that lovely gait ;) Thought you'd be interested about the bits gait-wise too.
 
#37 ·
^^ I REALLY like the idea of a BITLESS pelhalm! How clever! And the other thing--what exactly is it? A hack with a bit? It looks interesting..Like you HAVE the hack, with a bit for "back up"..What was the first thing called? I'm going to look it up! :)
 
#41 ·
Any of the three last ones, but the black one is pretty thick and might not fit properly in the horses moth. It also depends a lot on the horse, but I personaly wouldn't put a broken/jointed one in his mouth with that curb chain :)
The last one gives the tounge a rest, but you have to make sure that port is low enough not to hit the palate. I'd try the simple, straight bar one. Tho, Crow already use a straight bar snaffle, so that's part of the reason :P

Wern't all of these cheaper than that? :P 34, I think, and 27?

Yes, the twisted ones have, but I don't really like them. They have quite a lot more ''bite'' since they will run sideways, with preassure, over the toothless area in the horses mouth. Which is filled with nerves. And they'll always be more severe, so it's difficult to go back to a mooth one later.
(The sides of the bits, where the bridle and reins attach.. I've noticed that some people here claim pretty much any bit with a jointed mouthpiece to be a snaffle >_> when the type of bit really depends on the sidepieces rather than the mouth piece.. >_> if it's an O-ring or a D-ring doesn't make much differense, the D-ring is better if your horse needs help to follow the bit to the sides and so. And any bit with a shank rather than a ring, is not a snaffle...)

Or, you can try making your own bitless pelham. It's very easy as long as you can get hold of 2 rings in the right size and that's sturdy enough. (My instructor used two key-rings on the noseband of her hackamore on her PRE stallion when he was all crazy and ruined after some bad riding in Spain..****** I prefer something a bit.. less break-able tho.. x) )
 
#42 ·
Any of the three last ones, but the black one is pretty thick and might not fit properly in the horses moth. It also depends a lot on the horse, but I personaly wouldn't put a broken/jointed one in his mouth with that curb chain :)
The last one gives the tounge a rest, but you have to make sure that port is low enough not to hit the palate. I'd try the simple, straight bar one. Tho, Crow already use a straight bar snaffle, so that's part of the reason :P

Wern't all of these cheaper than that? :P 34, I think, and 27?

Yes, the twisted ones have, but I don't really like them. They have quite a lot more ''bite'' since they will run sideways, with preassure, over the toothless area in the horses mouth. Which is filled with nerves. And they'll always be more severe, so it's difficult to go back to a mooth one later.
(The sides of the bits, where the bridle and reins attach.. I've noticed that some people here claim pretty much any bit with a jointed mouthpiece to be a snaffle >_> when the type of bit really depends on the sidepieces rather than the mouth piece.. >_> if it's an O-ring or a D-ring doesn't make much differense, the D-ring is better if your horse needs help to follow the bit to the sides and so. And any bit with a shank rather than a ring, is not a snaffle...)

Or, you can try making your own bitless pelham. It's very easy as long as you can get hold of 2 rings in the right size and that's sturdy enough. (My instructor used two key-rings on the noseband of her hackamore on her PRE stallion when he was all crazy and ruined after some bad riding in Spain..****** I prefer something a bit.. less break-able tho.. x) )
^^ True..But I saw one for $200..It must have been sterling silver or something..Why do they call them "Tom Thumb Pelhams"?
 
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