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Breastplate/running martingale question

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  • Putting together a martingale and breastplate
  • How to put on breastplate running martingale

 
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    05-14-2010, 01:12 PM
  #11
Green Broke
If this trainer insists on gag bits and martingales, I would be more concerned with finding a new trainer...

If your horse's back is injured to the point that the saddle placed in the proper spot is bothering her, then she needs time off until the area is healed completely. Moving the saddle too far forward can cause other issues in the long run.

Ditch the gag, martingale, and the trainer.
     
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    05-14-2010, 02:09 PM
  #12
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvs2ride1979    
If this trainer insists on gag bits and martingales, I would be more concerned with finding a new trainer...

If your horse's back is injured to the point that the saddle placed in the proper spot is bothering her, then she needs time off until the area is healed completely. Moving the saddle too far forward can cause other issues in the long run.

Ditch the gag, martingale, and the trainer.
All of the horses there are or were polo horses. That might explain the combination of gag and standing martingale.

Its not injured. She's just being weird. Also, when I say far forward I do not mean in the wrong spot, just that if it falls back even a little she would start twitching as if it was irritating her.

To clarify: The running martingale isn't because she NEEDS one. The running martingale is because a standing martingale and breastplate apparently don't work together. Well, OBVIOUSLY don't work together. And this trainer is a firm believer in martingales, even though I don't see the use.

I'm sorry, but ditching my trainer is a little extreme. First of all, she's a wonderful trainer. Despite leaving me to learn my own horse facts (this is why I'm here) she is better than anyone in this area that isn't overpriced and doesn't just say "Get on the horse and ride, get off the horse and leave." Also, these are her horses. If I ditched her, I would have to go to a completely new barn (the closest one being an hour away, one way) and wouldn't even have a chance to ride this horse I have fallen in love with.

Can someone please explain to me how someone could think a gag and standing martingale (or just martingale in general) combination is safer in ANY way shape or form (rider or horse?) I want to know so I can validate her point or yours.
     
    05-14-2010, 02:18 PM
  #13
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tymer    

To clarify: The running martingale isn't because she NEEDS one. The running martingale is because a standing martingale and breastplate apparently don't work together. Well, OBVIOUSLY don't work together. And this trainer is a firm believer in martingales, even though I don't see the use.
OT, but you can get a standing martingale attachment for your breastplate, just like you can for a running martingale.
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    05-14-2010, 02:29 PM
  #14
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tymer    

Can someone please explain to me how someone could think a gag and standing martingale (or just martingale in general) combination is safer in ANY way shape or form (rider or horse?) I want to know so I can validate her point or yours.
That's our point, it's not. It's not a good combination anywhere, and the only place it's "accepted" is on the polo field. Polo horses can be retrained to use a snaffle and a martingale, or just a snaffle without any martingale.

The "safety" concern is for horses that toss their head dangerously high, to the point of losing control of the horse or possibly injuring the rider. If a horse does not exhibit this kind of behavior, then there is no need for a martingale.

Your trainer doesn't seem to know much about physics and the mechanics of bits and martingales. Have you tried asking her why it's more safe in her opinion?
     
    05-14-2010, 02:38 PM
  #15
Green Broke
Some good articles:
::: Sustainable Dressage - Tack & Auxillary Equipment - The Bridle & the Bit :::
::: Sustainable Dressage - Tack & Auxillary Equipment - Gadgets & Auxiliary Equpiment :::
::: Sustainable Dressage - Tack & Auxillary Equipment - Gadgets & Auxiliary Equpiment :::
     
    05-16-2010, 12:38 AM
  #16
Trained
Find a new trainer. If they're into polo they're not much of an english trainer. Strapping your horse up tight with as many gadgets as possible is not going to do anyone any good. Breastplate is fine it will keep the saddle from sliding back, but why the martingale??

If you're horse is still worried about it's back being touched by the saddle, give it time off until it's back heals and get a chiropractor out to give it the all clear before you ride. Riding on a sore back will simply aggravate the problem.

It's dead easy to jam a horse's head down in a gag. If you're working on 'collection' (I'm pressuming by collection you are inferring simple engagement and softness as this horse does not sound ready for true collection, as neither do you), put the horse in a snaffle, find a good dressage trainer and learn how to ride them hind legs up to the bridle.
     
    05-16-2010, 11:52 AM
  #17
Banned
Quote:
The running martingale isn't because she NEEDS one. The running martingale is because a standing martingale and breastplate apparently don't work together. Well, OBVIOUSLY don't work together.

I'm curious about this statement. As far as I am aware, a standing martingale and breastplate are absolutely fine together and are fairly common in the hunting field and occassionaly seen in the hunter show ring. Some folks actuall prefer the breastplate/martingale combination because it's more securely fixed in place than the martingale alone.
     
    05-17-2010, 01:47 PM
  #18
Weanling
Agh! I just realized somethings that are important.

1. She's not big on polo, but the official "owners" (the ones who own the barn) used to use a bunch of them for polo.

2. We wear our martingales loooooose. I looked up pictures online and saw these really taut martingales- this is not us at all. We wear them loose enough that the horse is (sort of) unable to run through our hands (I THINK this is what you call it) and keeps their head down to an extent, but not so much that they can't move it or jump with it.

3. The collection I am referring to is getting the horse to actively use her rear instead of dragging it along, which thanks to the work I have done she no longer does.

4. There's a lot of stuff I know but don't know terms for, sorry.

I just rode this Saturday and the horse was running like crazy so much that it was putting in danger all of the horses and people in the ring. We quickly put a very skilled rider on her with the same results, it was not just me. They gave her some ACE and she slowed down enough that it wasn't as much of a danger but it still took a hell of a lot of effort to keep her at a reasonable pace.
During jumping, the trainer took me aside and said the following. "You have a big choice. You can keep this running martingale and have to exhaust yourself controlling her while she will take jumps really well because she feels a lot freer, or go back to a standing martingale where she will be more under your control but she will go back to her silliness over the jumps." (She likes to round out, stop, and take jumps huge because she's a greeny.) I chose to keep the running martingale because I'd rather get her over the jumps and put up a fight than not get over jumps but not have to do much.

EDIT: I also saw how a breastplate and a standing martingale can work together. I get it!
     
    05-17-2010, 02:37 PM
  #19
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tymer    
Agh! I just realized somethings that are important.

1. She's not big on polo, but the official "owners" (the ones who own the barn) used to use a bunch of them for polo.

2. We wear our martingales loooooose. I looked up pictures online and saw these really taut martingales- this is not us at all. We wear them loose enough that the horse is (sort of) unable to run through our hands (I THINK this is what you call it) and keeps their head down to an extent, but not so much that they can't move it or jump with it.

3. The collection I am referring to is getting the horse to actively use her rear instead of dragging it along, which thanks to the work I have done she no longer does.

4. There's a lot of stuff I know but don't know terms for, sorry.

I just rode this Saturday and the horse was running like crazy so much that it was putting in danger all of the horses and people in the ring. We quickly put a very skilled rider on her with the same results, it was not just me. They gave her some ACE and she slowed down enough that it wasn't as much of a danger but it still took a hell of a lot of effort to keep her at a reasonable pace.
During jumping, the trainer took me aside and said the following. "You have a big choice. You can keep this running martingale and have to exhaust yourself controlling her while she will take jumps really well because she feels a lot freer, or go back to a standing martingale where she will be more under your control but she will go back to her silliness over the jumps." (She likes to round out, stop, and take jumps huge because she's a greeny.) I chose to keep the running martingale because I'd rather get her over the jumps and put up a fight than not get over jumps but not have to do much.

EDIT: I also saw how a breastplate and a standing martingale can work together. I get it!
I am very very confused...
1) the running martingale should never ever be used to influence headset - if it is, it is too tight. The rings should reach up to the top of the wither.
2) the standing martingale should never ever be used for control. The purpose of the standing martingale is to prevent the horse from tossing its head too high... but it should never effect how the horse is controlled, or effect its headset.
My thought is that both martingales are being used incorrectly.

More to the point, by using a martingale in this instance, you are not addressing the problem at its root, you are using a band-aid method of "control."

I am concerned about this stable; from what you describe, they are misusing bits (in my opinion, gags should only be left to professionals, and even then I'm not a huge fan), misusing martingales, and the fact that they would ACE a horse to continue a lesson? Red flags popping up all over the place.

You said the mare has a back problem? I would be concerned that she is in pain, and trying to escape from that.
     
    05-17-2010, 06:40 PM
  #20
Banned
Quote:
They gave her some ACE and she slowed down enough that it wasn't as much of a danger but
That is a very, very scary statement.
     

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