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Crank Noseband

This is a discussion on Crank Noseband within the Horse Tack and Equipment forums, part of the Horse Tack category
  • Can a tight crank noseband cause damage to the horse
  • Can an overtightened noseband cause tooth damage

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    03-22-2013, 04:17 AM
  #21
Weanling
Sorry, didn't mean to over-react - you know what it can be like on this forum, people do make assumptions and jump!

I tried him in an eggbutt French link to start, which he bulldozed through and chewed on all the time. Switched to a hanging snaffle which helped, he accepted that and worked really well in it, only chewing when out hacking and excited. However he was getting a bit heavy in the hand so we have recently downgraded to the loose ring French link, which has been the best of the three so far. The flash is only until he stops mouthing entirely, and he is improving all the time so it's far from a permanent fixture, the the combination of loose ring and flash seems to have him working best out of everything we've tried so far. Well see how he continues to go in it, of course...
     
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    03-22-2013, 07:54 AM
  #22
Green Broke
Okay this is something I am going to step on my soap box for because its getting on my nerves.

I am sick to death of people jumping all over others for using anything beyond the basic simple tack. Some horses just go a lot nicer in a flash. Just because there is a flash on the horse doesn't mean it is yanked super tight. Just because there is a flash doesn't mean the horse has its mouth wide open without it. There are reasons.

Just like I am sick of people jumping all over someone for using anything beyond a plain snaffle.

You don't ride the persons horse. You don't know the reasoning behind using a piece of equipment. Unless a person ASKS for advice on their tack you have no right to jump all over them and assume things.

/end rant

I'm sorry but its just really starting to get to me that everyone thinks its horrible to use anything beyond a plain snaffle and loose caveson noseband.

Oh and ftr this rant is coming from someone who uses a simple full cheek snaffle with keepers and no flash or crank noseband or even a martingale. So its not like I am defensive because I am using a flash.
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    03-22-2013, 08:11 AM
  #23
Showing
My Wylde jumper bridle has a crank noseband. I love it. To give you an idea of how loose it is, I don't undo it to put the bridle on. I like it because it's easy to adjust, looks nice, and has thick padding under the chin. It doesn't have a flash.

I'd much rather see riders in crank noseband than dropped nosebands. Drops sit on a very sensitive part of the face and can cause serious damage if used incorrectly.
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    03-22-2013, 03:39 PM
  #24
Weanling
I feel that if people ask questions in a forum, it is for the purpose of finding out information they don't already know. This information is often just someone else's opinion, and they might have their facts wrong. However, by discussing and debating the subject it can help everyone formulate an informed opinion. If one person does not like a piece of tack and expresses clearly why they don't like it, then others can decide if they agree or not. I personally have either added equipment or gotten rid of it because of things I had not heard yet or read about. If everyone just agreed about everything it would not be helpful for me to come on here.

No one says you have to agree that flash nosebands are good or bad or neutral. Or any other piece of tack. Understand that for some, anything beyond a rope halter is bad. Others use many different types of equipment. I personally use different things for different horses depending on the kind of riding I am doing at the time. But I always want to understand why I am using this particular piece of equipment for this particular horse. It sounds like Minstrel has used logical reasoning to decide what is working for this horse.

If a horse goes nicer in a flash, then it is good to understand why that is for this particular horse. It will help decide whether you want to use the flash on a different horse later, or if something else would work better for them. My only objection is when people don't think at all about why they are using one type of tack over another, or they don't think about how this certain equipment is affecting the horse.
     
    03-22-2013, 03:42 PM
  #25
Green Broke
Gottatrot my post wasn't directly directed to you. Its just that I see so many of these types of posts, yours happened to end up being the one I finally had to say something.

It just seems as soon as anyone sees a post where someone(who isn't even asking for advice) says they use x piece of equipment, everyone jumps and says that using anything beyond blah blah blah is horrible and they shouldn't be using it and there is a serious hole in their training if they use it etc etc etc

So I apologize that it was your post that made me say something. Its just been a long time coming from years of horse forums lol
     
    05-03-2013, 10:13 AM
  #26
Yearling
Our OTTB that we are retraining chomps at his bit no matter what is in his mouth. His teeth have been checked and everything. It is the weirdest thing. Not only can he not keep his mouth closed, he will actually put his head in the air and sideways, open his mouth, and move his jaw around. CONSTANTLY. He does it even when I am not trying to get contact. When I try to get contact, there is barely any pressure on the reins, and I keep my outside rein steady and kind of lightly wiggle my inside rein while pushing him a little forward. When he gives, I release the inside rein slightly and stop wiggling the rein. He will not keep contact, though and just plays plays plays with the bit. I have tried a d ring, d ring with rollers, plain loose ring snaffle, eggbutt snaffle, and loosering French link. Just the same with all of them. So my instructor said maybe a flash will help him. He has a light mouth, he just plays with the bit and puts his head everywhere except where it is supposed to be. It is very annoying. I may add that he was ridden in a tie down constantly before we got him and he was raced until he was 6. So I am sure that has something to do with it. So to flash or not to flash?
     
    05-03-2013, 11:46 AM
  #27
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by hisangelonly    
Our OTTB that we are retraining chomps at his bit no matter what is in his mouth. His teeth have been checked and everything. It is the weirdest thing. Not only can he not keep his mouth closed, he will actually put his head in the air and sideways, open his mouth, and move his jaw around. CONSTANTLY. He does it even when I am not trying to get contact. When I try to get contact, there is barely any pressure on the reins, and I keep my outside rein steady and kind of lightly wiggle my inside rein while pushing him a little forward. When he gives, I release the inside rein slightly and stop wiggling the rein. He will not keep contact, though and just plays plays plays with the bit. I have tried a d ring, d ring with rollers, plain loose ring snaffle, eggbutt snaffle, and loosering French link. Just the same with all of them. So my instructor said maybe a flash will help him. He has a light mouth, he just plays with the bit and puts his head everywhere except where it is supposed to be. It is very annoying. I may add that he was ridden in a tie down constantly before we got him and he was raced until he was 6. So I am sure that has something to do with it. So to flash or not to flash?
If its a whole jaw opening/closing/crossing then I personally would try a drop noseband, alternatively either an English or Mexican grakle. A flash isn't really supposed to hold their mouth shut, just to stabilise the bit. If you want to encourage their mouth to stay closed (note I say encourage, I don't like strapping them shut tight) generally a drop or some type of grakle works better.
     
    05-03-2013, 07:25 PM
  #28
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by minstrel    
If its a whole jaw opening/closing/crossing then I personally would try a drop noseband, alternatively either an English or Mexican grakle. A flash isn't really supposed to hold their mouth shut, just to stabilise the bit. If you want to encourage their mouth to stay closed (note I say encourage, I don't like strapping them shut tight) generally a drop or some type of grakle works better.
How do a flash and a grakle differ in function? Right now I just have a plain snaffle bridle on him. He plays with the bit and moves his head every which way that you can't keep contact with him.
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    05-04-2013, 02:24 AM
  #29
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by hisangelonly    
How do a flash and a grakle differ in function? Right now I just have a plain snaffle bridle on him. He plays with the bit and moves his head every which way that you can't keep contact with him.
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Flash is supposed to stabilise the bit in the mouth, grakle helps stop a horse crossing its jaw.

The physics is that, the flash is a small loop attachment to a cavesson/crank. For a flash to be tight enough to stop a horse opening its mouth (and even then it only act on the very end of the jaw so doesnt stop jaw crossing/mouth opening truly) it will pull down on the cavesson and put all your facial pressures out of whack. A grakle is designed to spread the pressure of the figure-8 across the face, and works higher up on the jaw to stop the jaw crossing.

Whole head movement may actually be worsened by trying to clamp his mouth shut though - worth an experiment, but whole head movement is often a real contact evasion tactic which worsens when they can't move the jaw. Sounds like experimenting with a bit rather than a noseband might be an option?

Also as a point of interest, grakles are illegal for dressage, but many eventers I know whose horses go in grakles use a drop noseband for the dressage phase, as a drop is better at closing a horse's mouth than a flash.
     
    05-04-2013, 09:57 AM
  #30
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by minstrel    
Flash is supposed to stabilise the bit in the mouth, grakle helps stop a horse crossing its jaw.

The physics is that, the flash is a small loop attachment to a cavesson/crank. For a flash to be tight enough to stop a horse opening its mouth (and even then it only act on the very end of the jaw so doesnt stop jaw crossing/mouth opening truly) it will pull down on the cavesson and put all your facial pressures out of whack. A grakle is designed to spread the pressure of the figure-8 across the face, and works higher up on the jaw to stop the jaw crossing.

Whole head movement may actually be worsened by trying to clamp his mouth shut though - worth an experiment, but whole head movement is often a real contact evasion tactic which worsens when they can't move the jaw. Sounds like experimenting with a bit rather than a noseband might be an option?

Also as a point of interest, grakles are illegal for dressage, but many eventers I know whose horses go in grakles use a drop noseband for the dressage phase, as a drop is better at closing a horse's mouth than a flash.
He's an OTTB and I've used many different bits with him but nothing changes. He looks like a chickengiraffe when I ride him. Lol. The drop noseband may be worth a try. I can get him to give contact for just maybe 2 seconds then he goes right back to popping his head around. I've been trying long and low too. He does it only for a couple of seconds then comes back up. I don't know how to keep constant contact with him messing with the bit.
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