Does this English saddle fit? - Page 3
 
 

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Does this English saddle fit?

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  • Classic saddlery saddles wither tracing
  • Jump saddles thay have a curved

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    11-25-2012, 01:27 PM
  #21
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by freia    
I think everyone has their preference. I think most will agree that flocked panels are very nice, not only in the support they provide, but also because they can be adjusted by a saddler for a custom fit to your horse. I like wool-flocked, but I'm old-fashioned. I know people like synthetic flocking too. Then there's the modern foam, which is not the same as a close-contact panel. Then there's CAIR, which is loved or hated by riders or horses. Then there's Flair (adjustable CAIR, basically) which seems to be more loved than CAIR.

For the size, I think you should take a wither-tracing. Use a flexi-curve or coat hanger to get your horse's shape about 2" behind the rear of the scapula. This is about where the tree points should sit. Trace it on a piece of carboard and cut it out. Preferable take your tracing with you shopping. If that's not possible (ie buying online), then take a look at the angle where the tree points will sit. If you're right about 90 degrees, then around a medium, more is wider, smaller is narrower. You also have to consider the profile lengthwise along the back.
Generally, I'd say that if you currently have a medium tree, you'd need a M/W or wide in that same brand. Every brand is sized differently. You almost start from scratch every time you try a different brand.
I did that originally when I first got her, and she turned out to be the medium gullet size. I didn't take into consideration that she was extremely underweight and had no muscle on her yet... of course it wouldn't fit now. Bah.
I'll measure her again today. I'll try looking up the gullet sizes of some saddles I'm interested in and compare the measurements.
Since not all saddles come in MW, would you typically size up to the W?
     
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    11-25-2012, 03:21 PM
  #22
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy1356    
. Wintecs have a bit of a rock to them so they would not work on a flat back.
Just for info, the majority of 'rock' issues with Wintecs IME are caused by

(i) In Cair saddles the foam airbags, being relatively soft, allow the tree to pivot about the waist. This is not generally an issue with most horses as long as the panel remains in contact right through its bearing area.

(ii) In both Cair and flocked saddles settling of the panel allows the front to drop below its optimum (balanced) level. Again, the saddle will pivot at the base of the withers. This is especially noticeable on a horse with any sort of shape behind the shoulder.

In both cases a flock adjustment will often cure the problem. It's even possible to flock over Cair to re-shape the panels though it is a fiddly job, especially at the rear.
freia likes this.
     
    11-25-2012, 04:22 PM
  #23
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclearthur    
Just for info, the majority of 'rock' issues with Wintecs IME are caused by

(i) In Cair saddles the foam airbags, being relatively soft, allow the tree to pivot about the waist. This is not generally an issue with most horses as long as the panel remains in contact right through its bearing area.

(ii) In both Cair and flocked saddles settling of the panel allows the front to drop below its optimum (balanced) level. Again, the saddle will pivot at the base of the withers. This is especially noticeable on a horse with any sort of shape behind the shoulder.

In both cases a flock adjustment will often cure the problem. It's even possible to flock over Cair to re-shape the panels though it is a fiddly job, especially at the rear.
So... I'm guessing the Cair isn't the preferred way to go? I've heard mixed reviews by people. They either say their horse's performance gets better or is harmed.

Does anybody have experience with which horse body shapes work with the Cair and which work with plan ol' wool?
     
    11-25-2012, 06:25 PM
  #24
Trained
Cair is typically "flatter" and will therefore fit a flatter backed horse more easily, however will not fit a horse with hollows/lack of muscle, because it doesn't go "round"... just sits flat. For a straight back the only thing I have found to fit is the Isabell [dressage] but for an extremely SHORT back it's a bad choice because it is a bulky saddle. The Innova [Bates range, also dressage] might be reasonable and the old-style Wintec 500 dressage is good. For the jumping saddles, I couldn't find anything that was straight enough for the horse I had then. I just jumped him in his dressage saddle. My wintec 500 CC jump is straight-ish, and there are some Prestige saddles that look straight. Bates Elevation DS+ [NOT the standard model] is a very nice jumping saddle which fits straighter horses reasonably as well.

I have a Cair saddle and a flocked saddle and my horse doesn't seem to notice the difference, but the Cair bounces... and my saddle rocks especially in the trot.
     
    11-25-2012, 07:08 PM
  #25
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue eyed pony    
Cair is typically "flatter" and will therefore fit a flatter backed horse more easily, however will not fit a horse with hollows/lack of muscle, because it doesn't go "round"... just sits flat. For a straight back the only thing I have found to fit is the Isabell [dressage] but for an extremely SHORT back it's a bad choice because it is a bulky saddle. The Innova [Bates range, also dressage] might be reasonable and the old-style Wintec 500 dressage is good. For the jumping saddles, I couldn't find anything that was straight enough for the horse I had then. I just jumped him in his dressage saddle. My wintec 500 CC jump is straight-ish, and there are some Prestige saddles that look straight. Bates Elevation DS+ [NOT the standard model] is a very nice jumping saddle which fits straighter horses reasonably as well.

I have a Cair saddle and a flocked saddle and my horse doesn't seem to notice the difference, but the Cair bounces... and my saddle rocks especially in the trot.
I think I will stay clear of the Cair, then.

What's the reason for the straight saddles? What is it you mean by straight? The panels? I hate all of this saddle mumbo-jumbo. I'll never understand it all. Haha.

What kind of saddle shape would my horse need? She's sem-round, doesn't have indentions on the sides of her withers, and she's short backed. I know I would really need a saddler to help me, but there aren't any English ones around here. I need to do a bit of guessing and checking. :/
     
    11-25-2012, 07:30 PM
  #26
Showing
Great pics! (and bsms, thanks for making them visible )

I agree with everything freia and unclearthur were saying. As for wintec some people like them, some don't, they fit some horses, and some don't (I tried wintec and it was a bad fit for both of my mares). Unfortunately all those interchangeable gullets are not really a miracle, because the fit also depends on how it sits along the back etc.

Personally I'd look into a good used saddle. Since you said it's hard to find a saddle fitter in your area you can contact Classic Saddlery or Trumbull Mountains with the wither tracings and ask for their recommendations (TM has instructions on how to do that: Tracings/Templates ). Both places also sell nice used saddles from time to time, so you may find something you like there.

Good luck! Saddle hunting can be really frustrating!
InsaneDino likes this.
     
    11-25-2012, 07:41 PM
  #27
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
Great pics! (and bsms, thanks for making them visible )

I agree with everything freia and unclearthur were saying. As for wintec some people like them, some don't, they fit some horses, and some don't (I tried wintec and it was a bad fit for both of my mares). Unfortunately all those interchangeable gullets are not really a miracle, because the fit also depends on how it sits along the back etc.

Personally I'd look into a good used saddle. Since you said it's hard to find a saddle fitter in your area you can contact Classic Saddlery or Trumbull Mountains with the wither tracings and ask for their recommendations (TM has instructions on how to do that: Tracings/Templates ). Both places also sell nice used saddles from time to time, so you may find something you like there.

Good luck! Saddle hunting can be really frustrating!
I don't really trust myself with that kind of thing. I traced her withers before and still got the wrong size. XD Oh heck. This is really frustrating. I'll check out the link, thanks!
     
    11-25-2012, 10:18 PM
  #28
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneDino    
I don't really trust myself with that kind of thing. I traced her withers before and still got the wrong size. XD Oh heck. This is really frustrating. I'll check out the link, thanks!
I have to say I'm pretty bad at it either.

However at Trumbull Mountain (they are very nice to deal with!) they asked me to send pics of the horse, pics of the current saddle on a horse, etc. A good fitter often can give good suggestions just looking at the horse.
InsaneDino likes this.
     
    11-25-2012, 10:27 PM
  #29
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneDino    
I think I will stay clear of the Cair, then.

What's the reason for the straight saddles? What is it you mean by straight? The panels? I hate all of this saddle mumbo-jumbo. I'll never understand it all. Haha.

What kind of saddle shape would my horse need? She's sem-round, doesn't have indentions on the sides of her withers, and she's short backed. I know I would really need a saddler to help me, but there aren't any English ones around here. I need to do a bit of guessing and checking. :/
By straight, I mean for a horse with a straight back. Some saddles have more curved panels which is good for the horse with a sway back, some saddles have very straight panels which is good for the horse with a straight back, and some saddles are in-between. Tree width is not the only consideration when you're fitting a saddle!

Honestly with the Cair issue, you really have to ride in it and see. I had a Cair saddle years ago on a pony that bucked in anything else. Technically that little Wintec AP didn't fit him but it was the only thing he didn't buck in. I had a dressage saddle that had Cair, too, and that didn't bounce. The Cair in my current CC saddle does bounce and the saddle does rock so I'm seriously considering having the Cair removed and replaced with flocking. It's luck of the draw just as much as it's personal preference.
     
    11-25-2012, 11:25 PM
  #30
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue eyed pony    
By straight, I mean for a horse with a straight back. Some saddles have more curved panels which is good for the horse with a sway back, some saddles have very straight panels which is good for the horse with a straight back, and some saddles are in-between. Tree width is not the only consideration when you're fitting a saddle!

Honestly with the Cair issue, you really have to ride in it and see. I had a Cair saddle years ago on a pony that bucked in anything else. Technically that little Wintec AP didn't fit him but it was the only thing he didn't buck in. I had a dressage saddle that had Cair, too, and that didn't bounce. The Cair in my current CC saddle does bounce and the saddle does rock so I'm seriously considering having the Cair removed and replaced with flocking. It's luck of the draw just as much as it's personal preference.
Does my horse seem to have a straight back? She has a slight bend/downward arch in my opinion. Would you consider that straight or in-between?

Hm. Again, I really wish I lived near some English tack stores or new some saddle fitters that had some for me to try. XD Aghh. I don't like living in this western riding area. Maybe I'll get the chance to try one sometime, but I probably shouldn't risk it. My horse is a pretty simple own as far as what she likes and doesn't like. She rarely puts up a fuss. The first bit I ever put in her mouth, she loved and still uses. I'm guessing she'll be the same way with a proper fitting saddle, irregardless of what flocking is in it. The price to replace the cair to a wool flocking is just too much for me to have to pay after already spending money on two saddles now.
     

Tags
arabian, english saddle help, saddle doesn't fit right, saddle fit, saddle issues, saddle problems, saddle size, shape

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