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Double twisted wire bit...

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  • Broken double twisted wire walking horse bits
  • Bites similar to a double twisted wire full cheek

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    06-06-2010, 06:49 PM
  #61
Showing
Because a rider doesn't have the hands, patience, experience, etc. to properly use a wire bit does not make it a bad bit. Have you ever seen the spade bits that the Vaqueros use? Would any of our members who are astonished at the wire bit ever consider the use of a spade? Doubtful. The problem, as I see it, is that it isn't the bit but the way it is marketed to the uninitiated.

Some of the finest "A" trainers use a bit like that to "brighten" their horse before a show. They'll train with a simple snaffle (as an example), then, just before a show, they may use the wire to tune the horse up. Those people know how to use the bit properly - not as a gimmick but as a tool - and never on a trail but only an arena.
     
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    06-06-2010, 06:56 PM
  #62
Yearling
I agree that the bit is only as harsh as the hands that hold it.
I have this theory that says everyone should have to pass a comprehensive exam before being allowed to have children. It has also lead me to the theory that everyone should have a comprehensive long exam and schooling before being allowed to put a bit, be it a rubber covered mullen mouth or a corkscrew twisted wire, into a horse's mouth. Too many people, too confident in their skill, or too unconfident in their horse.
     
    06-07-2010, 03:17 AM
  #63
Green Broke
smrobs - Excellent point! The way I think about it, my horse may not always be with me, and I refuse to be the reason some poor sap gets plowed into a fence and breaks his neck four owners down the road because someone forgot to mention the horse "won't go in a bit". It's one thing when it's your own horse, but even then, how do you know for sure you'll always own it?

I've considered going bitless with Zierra - I'm getting another check on her teeth done tomorrow, but she's had them floated a few years ago and the vet said it wasn't the problem. For as long as I can remember, she YANKS on her bit and chews on it constantly. She's always been ridden in the softest snaffles available. I trained with a Dressage coach when Zierra was young and even SHE ran out of ideas to make her stop. I can control her in a snaffle, but it's often not pretty.

Is it my fault? Of course it is - I was 17 when I trained her, and never trained a horse before. And I have to live with that. I've reached the point where I am actually examining a sort of corkscrew or wire snaffle to give her some consequence when she yanks on the bit. I don't have any intention of it becoming her permanant bit, and I've looked at bitless bridles (I can control her/ride her perfectly in a halter) but to me, it's not solving the problem. I get that she hates bites, she always has, and my inexperience didn't help make that any easier because it's just made her harder mouthed due to me trying to get her to stop hauling on me. It's just not an option in my opinion - you need to STOP acting like a cow, and now that I'm older I'm in a position to teach her she can't just waltz around doing as she pleases.
     
    06-07-2010, 03:55 AM
  #64
Green Broke
While I personally wouldn't use a twisted wire bit such as these we are talking about, because I ride trails and wouldn't want to take a chance of injuring my horse's tongue if something unpredictable happened, I won't condemn those who do if they are responsible about it (for instance, a respectable trainer).

What a stronger bit gives you is respect and finesse. It allows you to have a horse you can guide with just light rein contact or even just the drape of the reins.

If you don't have secure hands yet (and we all were that way in the beginning), then use something mild to protect your horse's mouth while you learn to ride. (What I did was simply stay out of my horse's mouths and rode on a loose rein in the beginning.) It took me years and years to feel comfortable riding two handed with contact. To know I was ready for that step and had soft hands.

And if you get great results in a plain snaffle, then by all means, stick to that.

But I get irritated by the "snaffle or nothing" mentality because stronger bits do have their place. They are for finesse. Try as I have, I just don't get the respect out of a plain snaffle with my Mustang. Sure, I can ride him in it, but I have to pull on him harder than I want when he dives for grass or we canter, etc. I put him in a curb, and he is super light and responsive and like putty in my hand. I neck rein and ride with a loose rein.

I could see, how if I always rode in a plain snaffle, my horse would start loosing respect for the bit, and getting a tough mouth because he would learn to ignore my subtler rein signals. Not that I was rough with my hands or he didn't know the signals were there, but because he would learn he could ignore me if he wanted to. He could call my bluff, as it were.

I don't want to have to pull on my horse's mouth. I want him to respect me and comply. Power steering, power brakes. I like the light, collected feeling of a trot and canter with a curb, and at the walk I can totally give him his head.

Yes, the double twisted wire bit looks wicked and I personally wouldn't use it, but I could see a trainer or someone using it in a responsible manner to keep the horse light and responsive.
     
    06-08-2010, 03:06 AM
  #65
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by iridehorses    
Because a rider doesn't have the hands, patience, experience, etc. to properly use a wire bit does not make it a bad bit. Have you ever seen the spade bits that the Vaqueros use? Would any of our members who are astonished at the wire bit ever consider the use of a spade? Doubtful. The problem, as I see it, is that it isn't the bit but the way it is marketed to the uninitiated.

Some of the finest "A" trainers use a bit like that to "brighten" their horse before a show. They'll train with a simple snaffle (as an example), then, just before a show, they may use the wire to tune the horse up. Those people know how to use the bit properly - not as a gimmick but as a tool - and never on a trail but only an arena.
I agree. Completely. And I've used a double twisted bit before on a horse I worked for a friend as a tune up before we went out to ride cross country. For flatwork and jumping in an arena he works beautifully in a full cheek snaffle, despite occasionally getting strong. So instead of risking his injury or the rider's on cross country, he'd get warmed up in the double twist on the flat right before going out and then get switched back to his full cheek. Of course, as stated, the bit shouldn't be used by someone that isn't extremely soft in the hands and isn't aware constantly of the bit, but used properly it has it's place.
     
    06-08-2010, 01:37 PM
  #66
Green Broke
Oh geez...I know that even in the schooling shows I've been to, they are looking for things like this when they do the bit check for dressage...they are totally illegal there. But I know you can jump in whatever.

I agree to the above posts though...in the wrong hands, ANY bit can be harsh, this one especially! Not an inexperienced horseman's bit that is for sure!
     
    06-08-2010, 11:40 PM
  #67
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by iridehorses    
Some of the finest "A" trainers use a bit like that to "brighten" their horse before a show. They'll train with a simple snaffle (as an example), then, just before a show, they may use the wire to tune the horse up. Those people know how to use the bit properly - not as a gimmick but as a tool - and never on a trail but only an arena.
Yes, you're talking of western horses or breed-show english horses, all of which go around on a loose rein 90% of the time they're in the arena. Most of the trainers with these horses use an o-ring or western style d-ring twisted wire. I don't agree with it and I have seen it improperly used more often than I have seen it properly used, but I can understand the application there.

The OP's bit is a double twisted wire full cheek snaffle with an off-set joint. These types of bits are marketed toward open-show style horses that are ridden on a "tight" rien 95% of the time. This is called "full contact" and it is maintained while riding, unless the rider or judge wants to see a "stretch" or loose rein. Many riders even maintain full contact while the horse is "stopped."

Because most people I see with twisted wire bits mis-use them or just don't understand their power, I am against their use and sale.
     
    06-09-2010, 07:20 AM
  #68
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvs2ride1979    

Because most people I see with twisted wire bits mis-use them or just don't understand their power, I am against their use and sale.
Yes ... and that is the problem - misuse and fix all marketing to those who have no business using them.
     
    06-10-2010, 02:58 PM
  #69
Foal
I HATE these. There is this a$$ hole family that I know that "must win everything" so they put this on their 22 year old connemara who is practically dead because she must be "perfect".
     
    06-10-2010, 03:50 PM
  #70
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tymer    
I feel like this bit has its place, but no one uses it in the correct place.

I think I recall someone in another thread saying how they needed one on a mule, I believe, because his mouth was so numbed and scarred that he physically COULD NOT FEEL anything else. That is a reason to use this bit.

But I think it's true that most people who could use one properly wouldn't need one in the first place.

Quite likely it was in this shape BECAUSE they used a bit like this.

I see no reason to use one, myself. If I have to inflict some pain to get a horse's attention, there are much better ways (and less damaging ones) to do it.

Only as bad as the rider's hands? Please! Simply laying on the horse's bars would be uncomfortable. On contact.....? OUCH!
     

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