Draw reins? - Page 3

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Draw reins?

This is a discussion on Draw reins? within the Horse Tack and Equipment forums, part of the Horse Tack category

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    01-10-2008, 12:46 AM
Spirit horse would you mind sharing with me how many World/National/State champions you have trained using this method???????

Also please tell me how this is going to teach her horse to hold his frame at the Lope or Extended Trot????? I am failing to see how what you have suggested could assisst a horse that already knows how to set his head but find himself to be a little lazy and not really wanting to hold together for as long as her is being required too.....

The method is a very standard and straight foward way of teaching a 2yo to set his head so don't think that I am disagreeing with the technique itself but it is not covering the question at hand now is it.

You say that you can't have an opinion but you are the first one to say that any method that is not sanctioned in a "natural horsemanship" publication must be cruel or unkind and surely you can't think that just because I or any other person thinks that what you may do is not our cup of tea does not mean that we are wrong to use training aids. If they were such horrible things don't you think that animal welfare groups would be all over them and have them banned
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    01-10-2008, 08:50 AM
Green Broke
Originally Posted by Spirithorse
snaffle (double jointed)
Ha ha ha.

If your such a "natural" and rant about natural horsemanship. Then why use tack at all? Tack is certainly not natural, neither is training a horse. I think they should call "Natural Horsemanship" something other then "Natural". My horse has a natural headset, he typically keeps his head slightly down, but I use draw reins to improve it. There is noting "Un-natural" about the way he moves or his head. If you want to see un-natural movement/headset go watch a western pleasure class at quarter horse congress. Some of those people hock hobble their horses just so they go slower. To me, now that is wrong.
    01-10-2008, 09:30 AM
I Love Lane- When did I ever say artificial aids were "cruel" or "unkind?" I never said that, so don't put words in my mouth and don't assume that I think so. I don't think they are cruel and unkind, I just think they are unneccesary. Simple as that. Just because you don't like NH, don't put a spin on my simple opinion just because you know I follow NH.

Delete- Why do I use tack? Simple, I want more refined communication with my horse. I do love bareback riding though But I do agree with you that some western pleasure horses look sick and there is nothing good about how they move. What some people do to those......now THAT is cruel and unkind, not draw reins
    01-10-2008, 09:47 AM
Green Broke
Refined? How so.
    01-10-2008, 10:34 AM
Refined meaning more clear and more direct communication and more precise.

Riding in a halter will only go so far
    01-10-2008, 11:36 AM
Just like riding in a snaffle and normal reins can only go so far with some horses.

Just because there are different ways to get the message across.. it doesn't make one way more "natural" then the next. If using a bit and reins is "refined" then using draw reins is even more refined- and a little more clear..

My horse has a pretty naturally low headset (not quarter horse low, but low for me in terms of taking a liking to saddleseat) and I rarely use draw reins on him any more.. but every once in a while you'll catch me using draw reins, especially if I want to get the point across or maybe a little more control without using a harsher bit.

I still say that tack is only as harmful as the person using it. A fat snaffle broke two times in the wrong hands will more readily harm a horse than a plan snaffle and draw reins in the right hands.
    01-10-2008, 04:01 PM
Green Broke
    01-10-2008, 05:29 PM
I think people should be a little bit careful about jumping all over people who have a different opinion and different way of training. Just because Spirithorse has made her philosophy on horses and training clear, does not mean that she automatically has to quit sharing them...each thread has a different angle, and she may have something to contribute to those interested in her way of training.

I used to use draw reins, but learned a better way to get my horses headset through serpentines and circling (along with various subtle things)...and so choose to simplify my life to the least tack possible. Now, if I were competing in an actual APHA show rather than just open shows, I may be more inclined to employ some of the training methods used by top showers as well, who knows. Draw reins seem to have their usefulness, but are NOT the only way to achieve a proper headset. To each his own. I try to do as much without aids as possible, but that doesn't mean that I don't use any aids at all. :)

As for the original question about whether or not draw reins are cruel - I think it depends on the user.

What is everyone flipping out about natural horsemanship for anyway? Who the freak cares what it is called! It simply generalizes some training and horse philosophies - not always the same either depending on the trainer :). I have been able to get some awesome training and communication tools from various "natural horsemanship" trainers. I don't hold NH as the bible on horses training, but have found many useful tools from it - as well as other kinds of training. I learn from whereever I can, and integrate what works for me into my philosophy.

Speaking of natural...I would LOVE to be able to communicate with only my body cues and no tack. I saw someone going all around the grounds at one of our competitive trail rides last year with no tack at all - it was so sool. I also have seen people do reining patterns with not saddle or bridle (just a neck string) - that takes a lot of skill!!
    01-10-2008, 06:06 PM
Guy's it's all physics.

The advantage of draw reins is in straightforwardness and simplicity. In my HUMBLE opinion, it's easier to simply redirect the direction of pressure in their mouth to one that is more encouraging of the behavior you are trying to get across. Draw reins work on the most basic of pulley systems. They just redirect the vector of pull. NOTHING MORE. When you pull up and back, the bit pulls down and in. It's actually more understandable for the horse if you ask me.

I don't see the evil in that, or the lack of "natural"-ness. In my opinion, its more "savvy" than all that other work in the name of simplifying tack and treating your horse with respect.

How much simpler can draw reins be?
    01-10-2008, 10:19 PM
I'm not trying to jump down anyone's neck about what they believe.. To each their own.. I just felt the need to defend the use of draw reins.. I'm personally not into the whole NH thing, but I have nothing against it either.. I have something against people making accusations that a practiced training method is cruel or forceful just because its not the way they would go about it. People have to start seperating the equipment from the abuser. Very few tack items were designed to inflict harm or will inflict harm no matter what. They inflict harm when people go beyond the tack's original goal.

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